The 1st Magnum

[DARE]

THE MOST POWERFUL HAND ARM IN THE WORLD
THE FINEST TARGET REVOLVER MADE
SMITH & WESSON ACCURACY

The S&W ".357" Magnum
"The most important handgun developed in the twentieth century." - Roy Jinks

"Magnum" a greater chamber capacity than military dimensions and power beyond the normal expectancy of the caliber.

1510 foot-seconds muzzle velocity! 800 foot-pounds muzzle energy!

More energy at 100 yards than the muzzle energy for .38 S&W Special Hi-Speed.
More energy at 200 yards than the muzzle energy for .44 S&W Special.
More energy at 300 yards than the muzzle energy for .38 S&W Special.

 

[S&W ucla]

Great Post!
10 more years will be 100th Anniversary. $60.00 in 1935 would buy you a NIB Magnum to your order. Curiosity vs Cats...

60 1935 Silver dollars today, say $2,500. Reblued, cut bbl, gun?
3 $20 US pre33 Gold coins today, say $8,500. Nice original gun, box?
$60 5% compounded annually 90 yrs $4,800. Good condition 6.5"?
$60 6% compounded annually 90 yrs $11,500. Nice gun with most acc?
$60 Bitcoin @1.00 each Feb 9,2011 $6,000,000. Buy a few nice ones!

Just food fur thankin bout

 

[DWalt]

In 1935, very few earned more than $1/hour, most workers made somewhat less. Assuming they even had a job. The first Federal minimum wage established in around 1938 was 25 cents per hour.

 

[DARE]

As the barrel length is reduced the velocity will decrease; an approximate but practical rule to determine the velocity of any length of barrel is to subtract 40 foot-seconds for each inch the barrel is shortened down to 6", and from there to the minimum (3 1/2") 50 foot-seconds.

Using this formula my first year 5-inch gun would have about 1350 fps. Still a lot of power for 1935.

 

[Gamecock]

In 1935, the 38 Super had been out for 6 years, in a 9 + 1 Colt 1911. I get 1475 fps with a 125gr bullet in a 6" 1911.

Magnum is not better than Super.

 

[StrawHat]

In 1935, the 38 Super had been out for 6 years, in a 9 + 1 Colt 1911. I get 1475 fps with a 125gr bullet in a 6" 1911.

Magnum is not better than Super.

Are those factory loads?

Kevin

 

[glenwolde]

Great Post!
10 more years will be 100th Anniversary. $60.00 in 1935 would buy you a NIB Magnum to your order. Curiosity vs Cats...

60 1935 Silver dollars today, say $2,500. Reblued, cut bbl, gun?
3 $20 US pre33 Gold coins today, say $8,500. Nice original gun, box?
$60 5% compounded annually 90 yrs $4,800. Good condition 6.5"?
$60 6% compounded annually 90 yrs $11,500. Nice gun with most acc?
$60 Bitcoin @1.00 each Feb 9,2011 $6,000,000. Buy a few nice ones!

Just food fur thankin bout

Another way to look at it is $60 in 1935 is $1375.95 in today's dollars.

 

[steelslaver]

Another way to look at it is $60 in 1935 is $1375.95 in today's dollars.

Which will buy you a decent 27-2. You can buy brand new J, K, L and N frame 357s for well under that.

 

[DARE]

In 1935, the 38 Super had been out for 6 years, in a 9 + 1 Colt 1911. I get 1475 fps with a 125gr bullet in a 6" 1911.

Magnum is not better than Super.

Lot of difference between a 125 grains and 158 when it comes to energy.
Cartridges of the World says .38 Super factory load is 130gr @ 1275 fps and 468 ft lb. muzzle energy. A long ways from 468 ft lb. to 806.
Super is not Magnum

 

[THE PILGRIM]

Here’s my first Magnum.
I think I paid $135 for this one.
Bought it used in 1963 from a private Indiana seller, no box, with original Magnas.
That’s it on the Right.
Over the years I have added the TT, TH and Grips.

 

[Gamecock]

Are those factory loads?

Kevin

No. Factory loadings today are way under powered, except for Underwood and Buffalo Bore, ~1350 fps.

My load is 10.4gr VV N105. 1415 fps from 5" barrel.

Older VV loading data said max was 11.0 gr. I tested above 10.4 and saw more velocity, but decided it wasn't enough to justify pressure risk. More recent VV data shows 10.4 as max.
Current data doesn't list it - N105 discontinued. I think it possible I could have made 1500 in 6" if I had tried.

For us Super fans, we are in the same spot as 20 years ago. The best powder for 38 Super was S2 (I forget the European brand name). Great stuff discontinued.

Shooting Times backs up my experience:

https://www.shootingtimes.com/editorial/super-powders-for-the-38-super/99160

 

[turnerriver]

S.D. Myres 1940 catalog had 2 pages devoted to holsters and belts for the .357 Magnum. Depending on which holster you ordered you could deduct .25 or .50 per inch for barrels shorter than 8 3/4”.

Regards,

 

[Jack Flash]

I thought the .45 Colt was the first magnum, in fact if not in name.

 

[StrawHat]

No. Factory loadings today are way under powered, except for Underwood and Buffalo Bore, ~1350 fps.

…

Comparing handloads to factory is usually done to show how an inferior cartridge is as good or better than another one.

You should compare factory to factory or handload to handload.

Just for fun, read about what Phil Sharpe did with the 38 S&W Special and handloads. Very eye opening.

Kevin

 

[Gamecock]

No, Strawhat. I am comparing .357 to it's predecessor.

 

[BLACKHAWKNJ]

My mother told me there was a minimum wage law in the 1930s that specified $15 for a 44 hour week. So a Registered Magnum in 1935 would have cost a month's pay for many.

 

[BC38]

No. Factory loadings today are way under powered, except for Underwood and Buffalo Bore, ~1350 fps.

My load is 10.4gr VV N105. 1415 fps from 5" barrel.

Older VV loading data said max was 11.0 gr. I tested above 10.4 and saw more velocity, but decided it wasn't enough to justify pressure risk. More recent VV data shows 10.4 as max.
Current data doesn't list it - N105 discontinued. I think it possible I could have made 1500 in 6" if I had tried.

For us Super fans, we are in the same spot as 20 years ago. The best powder for 38 Super was S2 (I forget the European brand name). Great stuff discontinued.

Shooting Times backs up my experience:

Super Powders for the .38 Super - Shooting Times

If I'm reading you correctly, you're making the case that the (obsolete) 38 Super is a "better" SD round than the 357 Magnum? BUT, to see the benefits of the 38 Super, you also have to handload it - using powders that are also obsolete and unavailable?

That seems very impractical to me. Especially when you consider the fact that there are still so many readily available powders for reloading the 357 magnum. IMO, "better" is only really better if it is something reasonably achievable. Otherwise the argument is a moot point.

I have to agree with you on your other point though. When you compare today's ammo and reloading data to the ammo and reloading data of the past, the modern stuff certainly seems pretty underpowered.

 

[LoboGunLeather]

My mother told me there was a minimum wage law in the 1930s that specified $15 for a 44 hour week. So a Registered Magnum in 1935 would have cost a month's pay for many.

In the early 1970s I was a young cop. We purchase our own revolvers, uniforms, and equipment. A new Smith & Wesson Model 19 was the cream of the crop then, about $125 on a law enforcement purchase order. The Model 27 was way out of reach at about $165 LEO price. A new Model 10 could be had for about $85.

My starting salary was $657 per month. After federal and state taxes, family medical policy, and mandatory retirement fund contributions my take-home pay was $192 every two weeks. Two young kids to feed and a house payment of $182 per month kept me scrambling without thinking too much about another gun. Just keeping fresh batteries in my flashlight was a challenge at times.

Saved my pocket change every day, emptying my pockets into a box in my locker. That is what paid for my annual deer or elk hunting trip without dipping into the household budget while trying to put a couple hundred pounds of meat in the freezer (purchased on sale and paid for at $12 per month so I didn't want it to go to waste).

Worked every special duty assignment I could get and hustled side jobs as a house framer and roofer at every opportunity.

Anybody else remember the OPEC oil embargo about 1974-1975? Block-long lines at the gas stations, prices doubled (25 cents to 50-plus cents per gallon), limited to 5 gallons per customer.

Thread drift and old memories. Enjoy your day!

 

[Gamecock]

No, BC38. The title of this thread is '1st Magnum.' I submit the 38 Super was, they just didn't call it 'magnum.'

Imagine if all the things we now call magnum were called super.