.44 Special +P Loads vs .44 Remington Magnum for Self Defense

Its strange how many great .44 Special +P and .44 Magnum loads have been "DISCONTINUED". I have little doubt it was due to lack of sales and that it is partly on us the shooters and partly on them for not working harder to get the word out about their products to both law enforcement and the concealed carry community as to their ammo's effectiveness and sing its praises loud enough. Now, I know, in today's Socialist Democratic Leaning Society that is NOT EASY but it MUST BE DONE for the good of the people who's lives depend on the ammo they carry! NO, I am not a Republican but an Independent (former Conservative Democrat ) that was once active in the Democratic Party until I was told to "Shut Up, Sit Down, and Just VOTE THE PARTY Line" by my State Party Progressive Officials in Texas at the time! Wrong Move, that was like picking a gunfight with Jim Cirillo!!!!! :D
 
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steelslaver said:
I did, one 357 load expanded larger than my +P 200gr Gold Dots. Plenty went deeper sure. But, at 14" they will get er done:D
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.45 ACP Speer 200 gr Gold Dot +P - 5 shot average expansion diameter 0.70, average penetration 13.8".

Winchester 230 gr Ranger T-Series - 5 shot average diameter 1", penetration 14.2".

I carry Federal 230 gr HST +P in both my Springfield .45 XD and S&W 625 .45ACP. 5 shot average expansion was 0.85" and average penetration was 14.8". My guns like the Federal load.

The only .357 Round that came close was the 357 Mag - 125 Grain Lead-Free HP - Barnes TAC-XPD load and it was out of a 2" test barrel. The 5 shot average expansion was 0.75" and the average penetration was 14.6". Very few people carry or use this ammo as it is one of the most expensive .357 Mag. ammos one can buy.

We all choose what we and our guns like the best. :)
 
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The Good of the People Comes First!

We, the self-defense and law enforcement communities deserve better than what we have been getting both from ammo companies and from our city, state, and Federal governments! Politics be damned they are supposed to be serving the "GOOD OF THE PEOPLE" FIRST not theirs' or their political parties interests first!!! It is long past time "we" start demanding that of elected officials AGAIN!
 
I like Sig Sauer 44 Spl. 200 gr. JHP. Recoil is modest and it groups well in my Ruger Alaskan and M69 in 4.2"bbl.
 
Ammo companies have to consider their bottom line. Most defensive loads for revolvers are niche markets and not worth the cost to make and sell. You can either go with a small ammo maker or load your own. I happen to be a fan of Black Hills.

In the auto pistol calibers, including the revolvers I have so chambered, I generally carry the ammo that has passed Doctor Roberts' testing. He is the successor to Dr. Fackler and easily the best qualified expert available today. In revolver calibers, my default (with an exception that does not matter much) is a relatively heavy for caliber SWC at modest velocity. Placement matters most, as long as there is adequate penetration, and then the ability to deliver follow up/successive shots s fast as possible and with sound placement. I have experimented with my own retired qualification performance - for me, the mid-bore (9mm/.38 range) is the winner. Can I qualify with hotter .357 loads in my M66? Yes. Do I shoot those as well as .38 SWC in the same revolver? Nope. The difference is easily perceived and probably really pronounced if I were to use a shot timer.
 
Doug M. said:
Ammo companies have to consider their bottom line. Most defensive loads for revolvers are niche markets and not worth the cost to make and sell. You can either go with a small ammo maker or load your own. I happen to be a fan of Black Hills.

In the auto pistol calibers, including the revolvers I have so chambered, I generally carry the ammo that has passed Doctor Roberts' testing. He is the successor to Dr. Fackler and easily the best qualified expert available today. In revolver calibers, my default (with an exception that does not matter much) is a relatively heavy for caliber SWC at modest velocity. Placement matters most, as long as there is adequate penetration, and then the ability to deliver follow up/successive shots s fast as possible and with sound placement. I have experimented with my own retired qualification performance - for me, the mid-bore (9mm/.38 range) is the winner. Can I qualify with hotter .357 loads in my M66? Yes. Do I shoot those as well as .38 SWC in the same revolver? Nope. The difference is easily perceived and probably really pronounced if I were to use a shot timer.
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Considering the litigation lability of using your own or someone else's reloads in court in a self defense shooting I will pass on that option!

I personally am interested in ammo to be used in a concealed carry/self defense firearm that is defendable in court, God Forbid, it ever had to be used in self defense. Me, personally, I have my .45 ACP ammo but I am looking to get into a S&W Performance Center 629 2.6" .44 Mag with either some .44 Special +P loads as I have discussed above or some specifically designed .44 Magnum self defense loaded ammo which there is very little of. I plan to have the cylinder cut for use with full moon clips and the chambers chamfered which I have already discussed with my gunsmith. I am already shooting an Apex Tactical S&W 625 .45 ACP with full moon clips and love the fast reloads. To each their own. :)

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That 200 wc profile at 1000 fps looks good. When using lighter/shorter/milder bullets in large caliber revolvers, you may need to check if your sights can be adjusted so poa=poi. That wadcutter has the length, likely not a hard kicker and probably very effective.

For the short 45's used, have been moving toward a large meplat coated lead projectile at milder velocity's. A lot easier to control, and not dependent on expansion. However ya may need to be aware of penetration capability.
 
Georgia Arms makes a .44 mag 240gr SWC that lists 1,000 fps on the bag. It is my favorite load, loaded in new Starline brass. Though I paid $28/50 for 'em in the past I think it might be different now. Joe
 
zeke said:
That 200 wc profile at 1000 fps looks good. When using lighter/shorter/milder bullets in large caliber revolvers, you may need to check if your sights can be adjusted so poa=poi. That wadcutter has the length, likely not a hard kicker and probably very effective.

For the short 45's used, have been moving toward a large meplat coated lead projectile at milder velocity's. A lot easier to control, and not dependent on expansion. However ya may need to be aware of penetration capability.
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I agree totally I wish someone like Underwood would make a coated .45 ACP full wadcutter for us S&W 625 .45 ACP revolver shooters using full moon clips. But then I know we are a small niche group. :)

When I get my S&W Performance Center 629 .44 Mag 2.6" I plan to definitely try some of Underwood's .44 Special 200gr. Wadcutter Hi-Tek Coated Hard Cast through it. :)
 
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I had a good friend who carried a shortened Model 24 (4") for many years and used the old factory 44 Special load with 246 grain lead bullet going about 775fps----probably about 700 fps out of his shortened barrel. He was in a lot more tough situations than I was and never felt that his gun needed more power. It was a ferocious manstopper, not a great penetrater and easy to shoot repeat shots. This should be as good today as it was then.
 
Right or wrong, Skeeters' .44 Special load has been my most frequent carry load. The Keith 250 grain slug over 7.5 grains of Unique is accurate and hard hitting. The Speer Gold Dot load is the only commercial load I'd run instead if my only concerns were two legged threats.....
 
SuperMan said:
Would be interesting to see what the actual velocity is from your 2.75" barrel of both the Magnum and Special loadings...

A friend had one of the PC 629 2.75" ported carry guns. He sent me pics of the .44 Special loading after hitting water...they didn't expand at all whereas the Magnum bullets expanded every time... He didn't have a chrono to test test them however.
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Yep, been meaning to do this, but the public ranges I use won't let me set it up. I called Speer to see if they had gel tested the Special load in a short barrel, and he said they hadn't. He did say the Gold Dot bullet was designed to expand at 750fps and over. Your friend's ported guns are likely bleeding off enough velocity to drive them under that number, if they're at that number to begin with.
 
I notice that 44 Spl.& 44 Mag. Cowboy loads have not been mentioned. I do not think they will have good penetration in heavy clothing, but light/medium clothing might work. The old issue police load was 38 Spl. w/158gr. RNL and it worked back then. This is just something I will add to the conversation. This load worked way back when this was all they had.
 
Both the Underwood in .44 Special loads I mentioned earlier, I believe could be classed as +P with the;

.44 Special 200gr. Wadcutter Hi-Tek Coated Hard Cast, Brinell Hardness : 21, Muzzle Velocity (fps) : 1,000, test barrel length not mentioned.

.44 Special 200gr. Bonded Jacketed Hollow Point uses the Speer Gold Dot bullet, rated at 975 feet per second but from an unmentioned length test barrel.

That is exactly why I for one would like to see both rounds tested out of 2.5" .44 Magnum revolvers for both velocity and gel tested for penetration according to FBI standards. Their performance would be very interesting to me! :)

Of course if Federal should see fit to add a .44 Special +P HST load into the mix then I sure would like to see the tests on that ammo also! I'm not holding my breath however.
 
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44 special hard cast full wad utter.

I carry the Buffalo Bore 200 grain Hard Cast Lead Wadcutter in 44 special.

The also have the same in 44 magnum.
 

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zzclancy said:
I carry the Buffalo Bore 200 grain Hard Cast Lead Wadcutter in 44 special.

The also have the same in 44 magnum.
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I have nothing against Buffalo bore as they make a fine product. It is just when Underwood started coating their 200gr. wadcutters I leaned their way. I believe them both to be excellent loads! It would be GREAT to see a side by side comparison of the two loads, I think especially from the short barrel .44 Mag. concealed carry model handguns. Different guns, as we know, can prefer different loads. I for one would love to see such tests comparing velocities and penetration's with various guns! If nothing else than to see if there are any anomalies that show up because you never know! :)

What the heck, throw that Underwood Spear Gold Dot loading in for good measure since the velocity ratings are almost identical. It should make for some very interesting data for short barreled .44 Mag shooters to digest and think on! :D

OK, YouTube Ammo testers there is your CHALLENGE!

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I just noticed a chrono test of the Speer Short Barrel load with a 2.5" Redhawk here. Good results on speed. If the Underwood +P load with the GDHP is roughly the same velocity. it'll be a good alternative.
 
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