6actual
US Veteran
That makes good sense to me 
10mm Conversion Lab - C'mon in Y'all
- Thread starter BMCM
- Start date
OP
With the regular M/S Safety unit, I have little problem narrowing the levers. However with the decocker, there's a fairly stout spring on those parts. I feel I get a much better purchase and can more positively manipulate the decocker by leaving the levers full width. So, I have no plans to shave the levers on the spring loaded decockers.
Cheers
Bill
OP
Thing have slowed down a bit. Disc blowout at L5-S1 is mashing on the right side S1 nerve root. Kinda like being kicked squarely right in the initiative. As a result I haven't been getting much done lately.
Here's where we're at as of this evening....
Got the stainless slide detail stripped and freshened up the finish in the blast cabinet. I got started fitting the new sights and Uggghh! This again
This is the second time I've had to deal with this. The sight is just too long for the cut in the slide.
The last time I addressed this by filing the trailing edge of the sight to fit. I didn't care for the outcome in the end. It looked lousy and compromised the finish on the sight presenting an avenue for rust to take hold. I pulled the sight that time and went in another direction.
This time I decided to stretch the sight cut in the slide a bit. I only need about 0.005" longer to make it fit. And this way I will preserve the finish on the sight proper so no rust concerns with normal care.
So, over to the mill for a little trim.
Yup, that'll do nicely
I was considering re-blasting but a test fit of the sight and you'd never know anything was milled there. So, nevermind
Next, install that tiny bushing I made.
I machined a pair of those punches some months ago for another member and liked them so much I had to make another set just for me. These are just for installing and removing those little bushings. The fat one's for knocking them in and the skinny for driving them out.
Here's the bushing sitting on the punch with a little dab of retaining compound ready to go in.
Three or four whacks with a small hammer. Note how the slide is supported on the bench block. resting on the face of the spring tunnel and not on the barrels bushing.
And..She's in.
All done here with this one.
And
Waiting on delivery of the Caswell stuff to complete the 4014 slide. (ordered on the 19th and shipped only yesterday???
) Anyway, assuming the stuff works well, I want to blacken the decocker, bushing, guiderod, and touch up the slide a little. So that'll be the next update where we get to play with dangerous chemicals
.
Saving the barrels for last
Cheers
Bill
Here's where we're at as of this evening....
Got the stainless slide detail stripped and freshened up the finish in the blast cabinet. I got started fitting the new sights and Uggghh! This again
This is the second time I've had to deal with this. The sight is just too long for the cut in the slide.
The last time I addressed this by filing the trailing edge of the sight to fit. I didn't care for the outcome in the end. It looked lousy and compromised the finish on the sight presenting an avenue for rust to take hold. I pulled the sight that time and went in another direction.
This time I decided to stretch the sight cut in the slide a bit. I only need about 0.005" longer to make it fit. And this way I will preserve the finish on the sight proper so no rust concerns with normal care.
So, over to the mill for a little trim.
Yup, that'll do nicely
I was considering re-blasting but a test fit of the sight and you'd never know anything was milled there. So, nevermind
Next, install that tiny bushing I made.
I machined a pair of those punches some months ago for another member and liked them so much I had to make another set just for me. These are just for installing and removing those little bushings. The fat one's for knocking them in and the skinny for driving them out.
Here's the bushing sitting on the punch with a little dab of retaining compound ready to go in.
Three or four whacks with a small hammer. Note how the slide is supported on the bench block. resting on the face of the spring tunnel and not on the barrels bushing.
And..She's in.
All done here with this one.
And
Waiting on delivery of the Caswell stuff to complete the 4014 slide. (ordered on the 19th and shipped only yesterday???
) Anyway, assuming the stuff works well, I want to blacken the decocker, bushing, guiderod, and touch up the slide a little. So that'll be the next update where we get to play with dangerous chemicals.Saving the barrels for last
Cheers
Bill
6actual
US Veteran
Hope your back is better soon Bill, I feel your pain I have about the same lower back issues as well, the lot of the workingman.
The slide is looking good, good call on the sight install. Well done!
The slide is looking good, good call on the sight install. Well done!
vigil617
US Veteran
You're doing a boss job, Boss!
Your method of removing that broken carbide end mill was a stroke of genius, you know.....
Your method of removing that broken carbide end mill was a stroke of genius, you know.....
Doug M.
Member
While the work done is over my head, and I am not inclined to do or have done anything like this project, this string and at least one other of yours are fascinating to read just to see the knowledge and effort displayed. Keep posting these.
Great project, and thanks for taking the time to explain the process in such detail! I'm not a 10mm guy but do have a 'project' 4013 of my own to get fixed up, and this has been a very informative thread.
I had the same problem with the rear XS sight on my 457, they make them a bit too long for sure and I had to file mine down.
I've also used Caswell Black Oxide on a few smaller 3rd Gen parts, and it seemed that the Stainless Oxide worked better than the Non-Stainless for me. The carbon steel parts turned out kind of grayish, and would leave rings around touchup spots (overlap on the factory blackening). I was also surprised to find out that my 6904 slide stop was actually stainless steel - thanks Caswell!
I had the same problem with the rear XS sight on my 457, they make them a bit too long for sure and I had to file mine down.
I've also used Caswell Black Oxide on a few smaller 3rd Gen parts, and it seemed that the Stainless Oxide worked better than the Non-Stainless for me. The carbon steel parts turned out kind of grayish, and would leave rings around touchup spots (overlap on the factory blackening). I was also surprised to find out that my 6904 slide stop was actually stainless steel - thanks Caswell!
OP
Things are moving along, albeit a little slowly.
My order from Caswell showed up and I had opportunity to try it out.
Prep work involved meticulous cleaning & degreasing my parts. The directions say to use distilled water which I don't have so I used filtered water from a Berkey gravity filter. Soaked the parts in very hot water with a squirt of Dawn. Left them to soak until it was cooled enough to stick my hand in there then gave 'em a scrub, rinsed thoroughly & dried.
Getting ready to dip my parts. I cut up a piece of filler wire to bend some hangers for dipping the parts in the jar of acid. We have here a decocker, ambi lever, guiderod and that little bushing.
Well Huh! Those are black alright!
Lets start putting the 4014 together. Decocker goes in.
Guiderod matches nicely.
Got the little reducer bushing knocked in too.
So far so good. I still need to install the guts in the slide and stick a set of sights on there. Once those details are attended too I'll see about doing the barrels.
Cheers
Bill
My order from Caswell showed up and I had opportunity to try it out.
Prep work involved meticulous cleaning & degreasing my parts. The directions say to use distilled water which I don't have so I used filtered water from a Berkey gravity filter. Soaked the parts in very hot water with a squirt of Dawn. Left them to soak until it was cooled enough to stick my hand in there then gave 'em a scrub, rinsed thoroughly & dried.
Getting ready to dip my parts. I cut up a piece of filler wire to bend some hangers for dipping the parts in the jar of acid. We have here a decocker, ambi lever, guiderod and that little bushing.
Well Huh! Those are black alright!
Lets start putting the 4014 together. Decocker goes in.
Guiderod matches nicely.
Got the little reducer bushing knocked in too.
So far so good. I still need to install the guts in the slide and stick a set of sights on there. Once those details are attended too I'll see about doing the barrels.
Cheers
Bill
Not only is this a great educational thread - the photos are top shelf as well.
Thank you.
Thank you.
yustinus1973
Member
I'v been away from the forum for a long time, 2 1/2 years I think, no reason in particular. No joke this thread brought me back, it is just such a good read. Thanks for starting it and the project.
OP
Barrel work
Evenin' Gents,
Today I set aside time to do all the barrels work.
Started off with tending to these scurvy lookin' crowns. Kinda rough with lots of tool marks and some raised burrs.
Time to break out the barrel facing & crowning tools.
Outa that pile of stuff we'll use these three... An 11° crowning cutter, a mandrel to drive it with a hand drill, and a 10mm pilot.
I use a Hilti SFH-144a drill. It's got a three speed gearbox so when I set it in first gear it's variable speed from 0-380 rpm with lots of torque and very precise speed control. Works very nicely for turning cutting tools like this.
So we assemble the cutting tool.
And chuck it in the drill. The barrel needs to be completely clean inside which I've already done here. Then apply a liberal spash of Brownells "Do Drill" cutting fluid.
Light pressure and turning the tool for about 30 seconds is all it takes usually to clean things up. I only use about 1/4 to 1/3 of the available speed so 80 - 100 rpm or so. Let the tool do the work. The 4013 barrel I had to cut twice though because the original crown was very slightly out of square as in not cut exactly perpendicular to the bore axis. Anyway they both came out quite nice. And razor sharp... you do not want to press a finger against the crown and twist... No No
Figured I would hit the feed ramps with a extra fine Cratex point while I was messing about. Not that they needed it but I gave 'em a little shine anyway
Now we get to the chamber cutting. See that bright shiny ring down in there? That's the shoulder a rimless cartridge headspaces on. In this case we need to push that shoulder forward about 3mm or from 40S&W length to 10mm Auto length.
Tools for this operation are: A Starrett 93c tap wrench, A 10mm Auto finish reamer, A 10mm auto "GO" gauge, And a 10mm Auto "NO GO" gauge. As an aside... Anytime you're doing chamber work like this, your gauges and reamer must alway be from the same toolmaker. So, if you have Clymer reamer you want Clymer gauges too. In this case, the reamer and gauges I have here were supplied by Dave Manson Precision Reamers.
Got a barrel secured in the vise and by sticking the "GO" gauge in there you can see pretty clearly how far we need to go.
If I had a larger capacity lathe I could do this on the machine and be able to precisely advance the tool to the correct depth. Ah well, maybe someday, As it is I'll do this by hand. I took that same "GO" gauge and put a mark on the reamer so I know when I'm getting close.
Oil up everything with plenty of "Do Drill" and introduce the tool.
Turn slow and evenly with moderate hand pressure until close to the reference mark. Very Important!... Never turn the reamer backwards, to do so will instantly dull the tool. Turn clockwise only.
Once I get down close to the reference mark, withdraw the reamer and clean off the chips.
Also clean out the barrel. I'm using a 45 caliber bore mop to shove a patch through (intentionally very tight) from the muzzle. I push all the junk out then unscrew the mop and withdraw the rod so as to not drag and crud back into the work area,
Once everything is clean, check it with the "GO" gauge.
Still have a little ways to go here, say 0.040" or so. At this point, when I resume cutting I will only turn the tool maybe six or eight times then withdraw the tool clean and gauge check. Gotta be patient and go slow here to get it right. Keep in mind any metal removed here can never be put back. Take it from a man who once ruined an irreplaceable NOS BM59 barrel by cutting a chamber too deep.
Cut and clean a few more times and we're a lot closer but not there yet.
Again cut & clean several more time and I think we've got it
Checking with the "NO GO" gauge and she don't go
Checking with the "GO" gauge and she drops right in.
That series of photos was the second one I did, the 4013 tube I did first so that's all for today, we're done. If I feel industrious tomorrow I'll get on the magazine modifications.
Cheers
Bill
Evenin' Gents,
Today I set aside time to do all the barrels work.
Started off with tending to these scurvy lookin' crowns. Kinda rough with lots of tool marks and some raised burrs.
Time to break out the barrel facing & crowning tools.
Outa that pile of stuff we'll use these three... An 11° crowning cutter, a mandrel to drive it with a hand drill, and a 10mm pilot.
I use a Hilti SFH-144a drill. It's got a three speed gearbox so when I set it in first gear it's variable speed from 0-380 rpm with lots of torque and very precise speed control. Works very nicely for turning cutting tools like this.
So we assemble the cutting tool.
And chuck it in the drill. The barrel needs to be completely clean inside which I've already done here. Then apply a liberal spash of Brownells "Do Drill" cutting fluid.
Light pressure and turning the tool for about 30 seconds is all it takes usually to clean things up. I only use about 1/4 to 1/3 of the available speed so 80 - 100 rpm or so. Let the tool do the work. The 4013 barrel I had to cut twice though because the original crown was very slightly out of square as in not cut exactly perpendicular to the bore axis. Anyway they both came out quite nice. And razor sharp... you do not want to press a finger against the crown and twist... No No
Figured I would hit the feed ramps with a extra fine Cratex point while I was messing about. Not that they needed it but I gave 'em a little shine anyway
Now we get to the chamber cutting. See that bright shiny ring down in there? That's the shoulder a rimless cartridge headspaces on. In this case we need to push that shoulder forward about 3mm or from 40S&W length to 10mm Auto length.
Tools for this operation are: A Starrett 93c tap wrench, A 10mm Auto finish reamer, A 10mm auto "GO" gauge, And a 10mm Auto "NO GO" gauge. As an aside... Anytime you're doing chamber work like this, your gauges and reamer must alway be from the same toolmaker. So, if you have Clymer reamer you want Clymer gauges too. In this case, the reamer and gauges I have here were supplied by Dave Manson Precision Reamers.
Got a barrel secured in the vise and by sticking the "GO" gauge in there you can see pretty clearly how far we need to go.
If I had a larger capacity lathe I could do this on the machine and be able to precisely advance the tool to the correct depth. Ah well, maybe someday, As it is I'll do this by hand. I took that same "GO" gauge and put a mark on the reamer so I know when I'm getting close.
Oil up everything with plenty of "Do Drill" and introduce the tool.
Turn slow and evenly with moderate hand pressure until close to the reference mark. Very Important!... Never turn the reamer backwards, to do so will instantly dull the tool. Turn clockwise only.
Once I get down close to the reference mark, withdraw the reamer and clean off the chips.
Also clean out the barrel. I'm using a 45 caliber bore mop to shove a patch through (intentionally very tight) from the muzzle. I push all the junk out then unscrew the mop and withdraw the rod so as to not drag and crud back into the work area,
Once everything is clean, check it with the "GO" gauge.
Still have a little ways to go here, say 0.040" or so. At this point, when I resume cutting I will only turn the tool maybe six or eight times then withdraw the tool clean and gauge check. Gotta be patient and go slow here to get it right. Keep in mind any metal removed here can never be put back. Take it from a man who once ruined an irreplaceable NOS BM59 barrel by cutting a chamber too deep.
Cut and clean a few more times and we're a lot closer but not there yet.
Again cut & clean several more time and I think we've got it
Checking with the "NO GO" gauge and she don't go
Checking with the "GO" gauge and she drops right in.
That series of photos was the second one I did, the 4013 tube I did first so that's all for today, we're done. If I feel industrious tomorrow I'll get on the magazine modifications.
Cheers
Bill
Last edited:
Awesome tutorial/pictorial !! Thanks again for sharing with us.
Just curious, what's the dimensional difference (length?) between the "GO" gage & the "NO GO" gage?
.
Just curious, what's the dimensional difference (length?) between the "GO" gage & the "NO GO" gage?
.
Last edited:
JohnHL
Member
When I ream a chamber, I like to save the chips.
In case I change my mind....
John
In case I change my mind....
John
6actual
US Veteran
Oooh! ooooh oooh! cant wait to see it assembled and a range report
cant wait to see it assembled and a range report
OP
Awesome tutorial/pictorial !! Thanks again for sharing with us.
Just curious, what's the dimensional difference (length?) between the "GO" gage & the "NO GO" gage?
The gauges are right in line with the SAAMI Min/Max case dimensions so...
"GO" is 0.992
"NO GO" is 1.004"
Cheers
Bill
OP
Checking decocker timing
I blew off doing the magazines today. I decided to be lazy instead
I did however do a little fiddling this evening.
I installed a set of plain Novaks and finished assembling the 4014 slide.
I figured before i get much further along here I best check the decocker timing. This is especially important because the spring loaded decocker I installed in the slide is new to this gun and I do not know the state of the sear release lever in the frame.
So lets get to it shall we
Here's the new to me "1014" and above it are the three pin gauges I'll use to evaluate the timing.
Those pin gauges are 0.025", 0.045" and 0.078"
Now you don't need fancy pin gauges to check this, I just happen to have a bunch. Drill bits work perfectly, you just use the shank end as a pin gauge NOT the cutting end. Drill blanks are even better. Either way, you need one each in twenty five, forty five and seventy eight thousandths diameter.
You might think whats all the fuss? As long as the hammer drops it's OK right? Well, not necessarily. You see there are some other events going on out of sight that need to happen before the hammer falls.
Here, if we erase the slide leaving the decocker & firing pin alone. With the decocker in the up or fire position you can see the firing pin is free to travel forward.
Now lower the decocker and you can see there is a dovetail cut that captures the firing pin preventing forward movement.
And viewing from aft you can see the firing pin is now shielded from hammer strikes.
We need to insure those two events occur before the hammer is released so....
What were gonna do is stick a pin gauge in the shallow recess below the decocker right where I'm pointing with the punch then with the hammer cocked, attempt the decock the pistol.
I'll start with the twenty five thousandths pin. We should see the hammer fall here. If it does NOT drop, that tells me the sear release lever is flat worn out and must be replaced.
Hammer fell here so far so good.
Next I'll check with the forty five thousandths pin. hammer should fall here too. If it does not, a new sear release lever needs to be fitted. Our hammer decocked properly with this gauge too so we're still good.
Lastly I'll check it with the seventy eight thousandths pin. Here the hammer should NOT drop. In this case the hammer remained cocked so all is well.
If the hammer did fall, that tells me the sear release lever is too long and needs to be filed.
I would have to pull the sear release lever and carefully file this edge I'm pointing at.
I would file a minute amount at a time bit then re-install & check, repeating this just until the hammer remains cocked on the 0.078" pin.
Anyway the "1014' passed the checks. All that remains is the magazine mods and we can go for a spin.
I also repeated all the checks with the completed "1013" upper on this frame since I would like to test it before it gets shipped off to its new home. It also passed the checks. But will need to be checked again on it's new frame when it gets home.
Cheers
Bill
I blew off doing the magazines today. I decided to be lazy instead
I did however do a little fiddling this evening.
I installed a set of plain Novaks and finished assembling the 4014 slide.
I figured before i get much further along here I best check the decocker timing. This is especially important because the spring loaded decocker I installed in the slide is new to this gun and I do not know the state of the sear release lever in the frame.
So lets get to it shall we
Here's the new to me "1014" and above it are the three pin gauges I'll use to evaluate the timing.
Those pin gauges are 0.025", 0.045" and 0.078"
Now you don't need fancy pin gauges to check this, I just happen to have a bunch. Drill bits work perfectly, you just use the shank end as a pin gauge NOT the cutting end. Drill blanks are even better. Either way, you need one each in twenty five, forty five and seventy eight thousandths diameter.
You might think whats all the fuss? As long as the hammer drops it's OK right? Well, not necessarily. You see there are some other events going on out of sight that need to happen before the hammer falls.
Here, if we erase the slide leaving the decocker & firing pin alone. With the decocker in the up or fire position you can see the firing pin is free to travel forward.
Now lower the decocker and you can see there is a dovetail cut that captures the firing pin preventing forward movement.
And viewing from aft you can see the firing pin is now shielded from hammer strikes.
We need to insure those two events occur before the hammer is released so....
What were gonna do is stick a pin gauge in the shallow recess below the decocker right where I'm pointing with the punch then with the hammer cocked, attempt the decock the pistol.
I'll start with the twenty five thousandths pin. We should see the hammer fall here. If it does NOT drop, that tells me the sear release lever is flat worn out and must be replaced.
Hammer fell here so far so good.
Next I'll check with the forty five thousandths pin. hammer should fall here too. If it does not, a new sear release lever needs to be fitted. Our hammer decocked properly with this gauge too so we're still good.
Lastly I'll check it with the seventy eight thousandths pin. Here the hammer should NOT drop. In this case the hammer remained cocked so all is well.
If the hammer did fall, that tells me the sear release lever is too long and needs to be filed.
I would have to pull the sear release lever and carefully file this edge I'm pointing at.
I would file a minute amount at a time bit then re-install & check, repeating this just until the hammer remains cocked on the 0.078" pin.
Anyway the "1014' passed the checks. All that remains is the magazine mods and we can go for a spin.
I also repeated all the checks with the completed "1013" upper on this frame since I would like to test it before it gets shipped off to its new home. It also passed the checks. But will need to be checked again on it's new frame when it gets home.
Cheers
Bill
Last edited:
I love to watch a master at work.
Shadow1006
Member
BMCM, I must say, your attention to the details and sharing the info has been fantastic. Long may the 3rd gen guns live in infamy!
The 10xx series has been my absolute favorite, I had the 10mm passion since its inception and jumped into the game with my first when I took delivery of the 1006 Mar 1990.
The 10xx series has been my absolute favorite, I had the 10mm passion since its inception and jumped into the game with my first when I took delivery of the 1006 Mar 1990.
Last edited:
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