10mm Conversion Lab - C'mon in Y'all

Magazine modifications

Alrighty, lets take care of the magazines eh?

There are a number of things that need adjusting so these may accommodate 10mm Auto fodder.
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That spacer running along the spine needs to go.
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Need to do something about these indents (four per side) that are securing that spacer.
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This indent right below the feed lips is likely to cause problems too.
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I think I'll get that spacer out of there first. Strip the magazine down then rest the base on my bench with the spine overhanging the edge a bit. Then with a punch & hammer, give it a few whacks.
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Until the spacer is sticking out enough to grab with some pliers.
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And yank it right out of there.
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Now lets see about those indents up at the feed lips. As you can see they won't allow a 10mm follower to rise all the way up. I'm a little reluctant to go grinding in there with a power tool so lets go look in the tooling & materials drawer and see if we can come up with something else.
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Hey! how about this piece of hex bar, this might work.
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If I shove if in there this way...
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Then cram it past the indents...
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Then squash the thing in the vise...
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Huh!, it worked;) Still have a problem though. While the follower slides freely over the full length, we can't load more then two rounds because those indents along the spine are in the way.
Off to the milling machine.
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Here's a pair of 1/8" end mills. If you look close, the one on the left has an included radius where the one on the right does not. I'll use the tool on the left since I want the avoid having any sharp 90° inside angles where a crack might develop and propagate. Much less likely to have any problems if the bottom of these cuts have a small radius.
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There's our little carbide tool with the radius in the collet getting ready to make the first cut. I'm going to cut 0.050" below the sides and feeding in 0.140" past touch off.
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Two cuts done, fourteen to go. Just aligning by hand with the old Mk2 Mod1 Eyeball;)
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This one is done. Just need to clean up and do a little deburring in those cuts, reassemble and we are done.
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Closeup shot here you can clearly see the included radius left by that end mill. Looks like I still have a little deburring left to do.
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All done for now. Both mags load and feed well however, that old yellow follower tends to tilt a little as the mag nears full capacity. The orange 40 follower tilts even more. I do have some 10mm white followers inbound though so both of these will be changed up soon and that ought to address the tilting issue.
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So, next I'll be taking a closer look at recoil springs. I already have an "off the shelf" spring that will work here. What I want to do that I haven't yet is measure the spring space with the action fully open to determine exactly how much spring I can stuff in there. I also need to account for the bushing which takes up a little bit of that spring space.


Cheers
Bill
 
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Looks very good! How did you cure the magazine base plate being a little short once the mag spacer is removed?
 
How did you cure the magazine base plate being a little short once the mag spacer is removed?

Oh Hell! Was I supposed to cure that?;)

Seriously... I didn't see that as an issue really. I take the assembled magazine in a "hammer grip" and lightly rap the toe of the magazine butt plate on the bench a couple times and inertia does the rest, the butt plate catch assembly clicks right into place and solidly retains the butt plate.

I may switch to the 10mm part later if some of those 23303000 pieces happen to come my way. But as it is now, leaving the abbreviated piece in there is in no way a show stopper IMO.

Cheers
Bill
 
Ok, why not just use the Hex Bar on the Pinpoint Indents same as
you used it on the top??

That hex bar would not reach back close enough to the spine to work on those dimples.
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I also looked at this piece of rectangular section 4140 but it wasn't quite wide enough.
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Even if it did fit snugly I'm afraid I would be exerting much too much force on that weld running along the spine. I was concerned about cracks developing or outright parting that weld seem if I tried something on these 8 dimples like what worked up by the feed lips. In the end I decided milling would do the job and give me the most consistent results.

Cheers
Bill
 
the indents along the back edge for the spacer were removed(internally) with a file.

I considered that method but didn't feel I could achieve a clean consistent result that way plus I didn't want to roughen up the smooth media tumbled finish or leave any rough surface that may drag on the follower. It could be argued that my machining fix left more holes for junk to foul the magazine. Well, I suppose that's true but with eight witness holes and a magazine catch slot on each side already there, I didn't think it would make a significant difference.

Cheers
Bill
 
More magazine tuning

Had to do a little more adjusting today.

My Postman delivered four white 10mm followers in this afternoon and yup as I suspected would be the case I'll need to give then a bit of a trim.

No way will I see the breech lock open on a empty mag with this. The follower is too fat at the top to fit between the feed lips.
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I had a feeling this would be the case from my fiddling with the orange 40 and yellow 10mm followers. You can see here the orange 40 has a milled relief cut up at the top to fit the 40 mags.
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That old yellow 10mm follower I have lacked that relief cut and would not lock open on an empty... That is, until I adjusted it some adding that relief cut you see here.
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So, I figured if I give those white followers a haircut like I did with the yellow one, all would be well:D
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Off to the milling machine. Same end mill in there I used the other day to cut on the magazines and you can see the area that needs trimming.
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I shaved off 0.014" off each side from the top down about .180"
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Milling is all done.
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One more thing... Judging by eye, filed a 30° bevel about 0.040 high on each side too.
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Two mags all set to go and two spare followers.
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Range day tomorrow. I have 100 rounds of greenbox remington to burn up. Initial test drive of the "1014' as well as the "1013" top end which is going to my friend in Florida. I have a couple different recoil springs to evaluate but I'm pretty sure at this point which spring I'll wind up going with in the end.;)

Then I need to spend some time getting some dope on my 6.5 Grendel with the brand new glass:cool:

So, next update tomorrow evening.

Cheers
Bill
 
Be sure to inform us all on the recoil spring evaluation. Did the compact flat wire work well or, weight, trimming, etc.... [emoji106]
 
Range report #1

Sorry for not posting last night. Long day yesterday & I was just flat worn out.

I hit the range yesterday to make sure everything was working as it should and to wring out recoil spring choices. I brought two different springs with me to test, both flatwire. First a Wilson Sentinal 22# numbering 22 coils, open on one end and the other a ISMI 30 coil 22# spring closed on each end.
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With the slide fully to the rear hard against the frames impact abutment there is 0.9245" space for a spring to occupy. Both springs are fabricated of 0.026" flatwire so with a little calcuating we find the Wilson spring will bind at 0.572" and the 30 coil ISMI will bind at 0.780". Both of them will fit the gun and work, at least on paper. In practice, flatwire springs behave somewhat like a stack of wavy washers and are very hard to compress completely solid. So in reality the flatwire will coil bind taller than the paper calculations indicate.

Here's the 22 coil Wilson spring installed. Goes right in easily.
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And the 30 coil ISMI which is a good deal more difficult to stuff in there.
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Having spent plenty of time fiddling with both of these springs at the bench and currently using the 30 coil ISMI spring in several of my compact .45s, I concluded the the Wilson spring would be too light for 10mm and as I alluded to in my last post had pretty much decided the 30 coil spring would be the best choice for this application.

Took station at the 10 yard line since it's all cement up there making it easier to find my brass. Even so I still lost one:mad:
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No complaints with accuracy. I was getting buffeted by quartering wind from 7-8 o'clock gusting to 20 so I was pretty pleased with this.
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I probably tossed more bullets into the berm than at the paper as I spent more time evaluating springs and ejection patterns than accuracy. I'd shoot left hand unsupported point shoulder and watch the ejection port then follow the case to where it lands. I didn't observe any significant difference in ejection between the two springs. Most brass landed 3-4 o'clock at about 8 feet away on average.

As it turns out I was wrong in my assumption the 30 coil spring would be best. While the gun ran perfectly with the Wilson spring, I had several malfunctions with the 30 coil spring installed. Mostly slide override FTF faults and a stovepipe or two so I must conclude the 30 coil is just too much spring for this gun.

Now the Remington greenbox stuff isn't exactly the hottest ammo around either so I have ordered up some Winchester 175 Silvertips and will prepare a couple different springs to test out next Saturday. I think I'll trim a couple springs to 24, & 26 coil and see how they behave both with the Remington 180s and the Winchester stuff.

This is my very first experience with 10mm and so far I like it... A lot! This little "1014" may very well find it's way onto my belt once I am satisfied it's fully trustworthy.

Just for the helluvit I did some fiddling with my digital scale weighing this against my frequent carry guns. I weighed each with a full load of ammo & one mag. So, 8/9 x 230gr for the 45s and 9x180gr for the 10mm.

4566TSWSSV Frankengun 44.5oz
4516 41.9oz
Shorty45 mk2 33.3oz
'1014" 34.0oz

Hmm, verwy interwestingk;)

Cheers
Bill
 
This project is nothing short of amazing. I'll never cease to be impressed by a machinist taking a hunk of metal and making something out of it. Great work.
 
Have you thought about trying a 20lb ISMI 30 coil? I believe that is what I'm running in my 1066
 
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Have you thought about trying a 20lb ISMI 30 coil? I believe that is what I'm running in my 1066

I've thought about it but am not sure I want to go lighter.
I feel the weight range is right it's just that 30 coils of spring is simply too much for the limited room in this short gun. Your 1066 with a 31 coil GLC20 spring has a lot more room for that spring to work in and a good deal more slide+barrel mass over my '1014" so it'll work with a lighter spring and has ample room for that spring to function in. I just don't have the room for 30 coils. Even though I can stuff it in there, it's just too much. So far I feel the weight rating is good judging by how well the Wilson spring performed. We'll see next Saturday when the experiment continues with some hotter loads. That is assuming my order is delivered in time and the weather cooperates:rolleyes:

Cheers
Bill
 
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As it turns out I was wrong in my assumption the 30 coil spring ...I had several malfunctions with the 30 coil spring installed. Mostly slide override FTF faults and a stovepipe or two so I must conclude the 30 coil is just too much spring for this gun.

...And the 30 coil ISMI which is a good deal more difficult to stuff in there.

.
Glad to see you had a good day at the range with the new gun.

I'm running that same ISMI 22# spring in my 4013 (after you posted about using them almost two years ago now) & it's performed perfectly with my full power .40S&W handloads.

I've had a few guns that I had to cut a turn or two off, so they wouldn't bind, but I checked my notes, & the original spring package, and it doesn't appear as I shorted this one.

I sometime use a lighter mainspring but the 4013 has a 20# Wolff in it so I'm surprised your 1014 didn't like the 22#.

As has been noted before, the ISMI springs aren't as hard to get back in the gun in subsequent assemblies as it is the very first time, which is tuff.

Awesome thread!

.

PS: I disassembled my 4013 & verified the ISMI has not been cut off at either end.

.
 
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I'm using 22lb flat springs in my Delta and 1006, anything stiffer and I start having issues with crushed and damaged brass I believe my gen2 G20 is running 22# also. I shoot fairly warm 10mm handloads, I'm having no issues with the 22lb ISMI either with brass or pistols.
 
BMCM / Bill
Well you guys are having a really different experience than me. In my 4013 I was running a 23# outer and a stock 4013 inner (nested set up) and the shells were landing 10 to 12 feet around 3 o'clock or so with Remington green and white like Bill was using. The thing is extremely hard to rack and I'm not a wussy so forget that part. I'm going to try the Wilson 22# and see what happens and will post my experience. There's must be some weird dynamics going on here with my pistol.
Take Care All,
T & B
 
BMCM / Bill
Well you guys are having a really different experience than me. In my 4013 I was running a 23# outer and a stock 4013 inner (nested set up) and the shells were landing 10 to 12 feet around 3 o'clock or so with Remington green and white like Bill was using. The thing is extremely hard to rack and I'm not a wussy so forget that part. I'm going to try the Wilson 22# and see what happens and will post my experience. There's must be some weird dynamics going on here with my pistol.
Take Care All,
T & B

Once you go with a flatwire spring, you wont want anything else
 
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