Around here they want you to shoot coyotes and other predators even if their land is posted. Their perspective, mine is if you will not let me hunt I will not shoot your problems either.
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.22 Mag in J-Frames…What Models are There?? Would You CCW One??
- Thread starter Nalapombu
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Around here they want you to shoot coyotes and other predators even if their land is posted. Their perspective, mine is if you will not let me hunt I will not shoot your problems either.
Back to the original questions, do I or would I carry a S&W J-frame chambered in 22 Magnum? No, I would not.
Yes, the 22 Magnum gets a bit more velocity than the 22 LR, but it is still a very small bore rimfire cartridge. I have had 22 LR cartridges fail to fire, the only centerfire cartridges I have ever had fail to fire was some very cheap, Yugoslavian made 7.62x39 mm ammo. Some of those failed to fire in my SKS, but that has been my only failures with centerfire cartridges.
I would much rather have 5 rounds of 38 or 357 that are going to go "bang" when the hammer falls than 7 rounds of a rimfire than may go "click" when the hammer falls. I would also rather have a fairly heavy, larger diameter bullet since bullet terminal performance from very short barreled handguns can sometimes be less than stellar.
Yes, the 22 Magnum gets a bit more velocity than the 22 LR, but it is still a very small bore rimfire cartridge. I have had 22 LR cartridges fail to fire, the only centerfire cartridges I have ever had fail to fire was some very cheap, Yugoslavian made 7.62x39 mm ammo. Some of those failed to fire in my SKS, but that has been my only failures with centerfire cartridges.
I would much rather have 5 rounds of 38 or 357 that are going to go "bang" when the hammer falls than 7 rounds of a rimfire than may go "click" when the hammer falls. I would also rather have a fairly heavy, larger diameter bullet since bullet terminal performance from very short barreled handguns can sometimes be less than stellar.
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I’ve got a 351PD, and it’s a great little pistol with far better sights than the typical J frame snub. It is pretty accurate, BUT as noted the trigger pull is an abomination (waayy too heavy), and two gunsmith friends refuse to touch it as they both state that reduced trigger pull will reduce reliable ignition of rimfire rounds. I do not carry it, rather have a 340 M&P. Similar weight, and sights, much better trigger pull (apex) and a lot more stopping power, even with .38 +P
Mike-AK
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I wouldn’t want to digest a 22 and doubt anyone here would as well.
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Up until just a couple decades ago, .22 was THE most used caliber used in homicides in the US. Now of course, it's the 9mm. Placement of any round is key in stopping a threat; therefore, any caliber is better than not having any and training is key. If a person has a problem with recoil and accuracy, I see nothing wrong with getting a 22WMR, training with it, and carrying it. Nothing at all.
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A short-barrel .22 Magnum handgun as your only alternative? It should work. Are there better alternatives at the same price point, size and weight? Definitely. Good luck in your decision.
Don't think killing power is in question ,Stoping power is .No doubt the 22will kill but will it stop a person or animal intent on destruction?
IU don't bet MY life to it..
IU don't bet MY life to it..
Rpg
Member
My experience with 22mag in revolvers has always been an unmitigated disaster: they are too loud for my purposes.
I think of 22 revolvers as a gun I’ll carry in the field to use on targets that present themselves (grouse, rabbits, coyotes). There isn’t time to put on ear protection, so I want a revolver that won’t deafen me with the first shot. The 22 lr fits that role. The 22 mag doesn’t.
There’s no observable difference between the two in terms of performance on small game up to coyotes.
I think of 22 revolvers as a gun I’ll carry in the field to use on targets that present themselves (grouse, rabbits, coyotes). There isn’t time to put on ear protection, so I want a revolver that won’t deafen me with the first shot. The 22 lr fits that role. The 22 mag doesn’t.
There’s no observable difference between the two in terms of performance on small game up to coyotes.
Carry what you're comfortable with and can shoot accurately.
When we talk J frame Smith's, you have a choice of a 7 shot .22 Mag or 8 shot .22 LR. For 22 Mag, it's the 351 C (internal hammer) or the 351 PD (exposed hammer).
With either of these options, the name of the game is reliability and penetration. The new Federal Punch in .22 LR seems to be getting at least 12 inches of penetration out of these 2" barrels (FBI minimum recommendation). The .22 Mags seem to do a little better.
.22 LR hollow points that actually expand out of these barrels don't meet the 12-inch minimum in penetration. And .22 Mags may or may not meet the minimum if it does expand.
As far as reliability, I've got an 8 shot 43C (.22 LR). I've ran 8 different loads through it and only had one failure to fire. And it was the cartridge. I've had no issue using the Federal Punch. And unlike auto's, you can just keep pulling the trigger until your gun fires. No jam to clear.
I don't foresee a scenario where my 43C is my only carry gun (maybe as a back-up), but it could happen. And it's 8 no recoil rounds if I need it (.22 Mag does have some recoil). This gun is also extremely lightweight even when loaded. I don't find my trigger pull all that bad on mine either.
But only you can decide if this is the right choice for you.
Here's the Lucky Gunners ballistics with .22 mag.
https://www.luckygunner.com/labs/pocket-pistol-caliber-gel-test-results/#22Mag
When we talk J frame Smith's, you have a choice of a 7 shot .22 Mag or 8 shot .22 LR. For 22 Mag, it's the 351 C (internal hammer) or the 351 PD (exposed hammer).
With either of these options, the name of the game is reliability and penetration. The new Federal Punch in .22 LR seems to be getting at least 12 inches of penetration out of these 2" barrels (FBI minimum recommendation). The .22 Mags seem to do a little better.
.22 LR hollow points that actually expand out of these barrels don't meet the 12-inch minimum in penetration. And .22 Mags may or may not meet the minimum if it does expand.
As far as reliability, I've got an 8 shot 43C (.22 LR). I've ran 8 different loads through it and only had one failure to fire. And it was the cartridge. I've had no issue using the Federal Punch. And unlike auto's, you can just keep pulling the trigger until your gun fires. No jam to clear.
I don't foresee a scenario where my 43C is my only carry gun (maybe as a back-up), but it could happen. And it's 8 no recoil rounds if I need it (.22 Mag does have some recoil). This gun is also extremely lightweight even when loaded. I don't find my trigger pull all that bad on mine either.
But only you can decide if this is the right choice for you.
Here's the Lucky Gunners ballistics with .22 mag.
https://www.luckygunner.com/labs/pocket-pistol-caliber-gel-test-results/#22Mag
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Back to the 32s. Ballistics by the inch shows the best 40 gr 22 mag at 946fps and a 30 at 1085 using a 2" barrel
The only 32 H&R load tested was an 85 gr at 845 using a 2" barrel.
Other sources report a 85gr S&W long at 700fps from a 2" barrel
Any of the J frame 32s can easily handle being reamed to 32 H&R and it doesn't take a hour do do it
An extra 100fps does not make up for being 1/2 the weight, nor does 250fps make up for being 1/3 the weight.
2" barrel realities
946fps 40 gr 22 mag = 79ft/lb
700fps 85gr 32S&W long = 92ft/lb
845fps 85gr 32H&R mag=134ft/lb
814fps 110 gr 38 special+p=162ft/lb
756fps 135gr gold dot 38 spec=171ft/lb
The 32 isn't as powerful as a 38, but they do give you a 6th round and less recoil. Either 32 beats the 22 mag and the H&R does it with almost 70% more energy.
I own exactly 1 22mag cylinder that I can use in a K22. If I want more than a 22lr, I jump right over the 22 mag
The only 32 H&R load tested was an 85 gr at 845 using a 2" barrel.
Other sources report a 85gr S&W long at 700fps from a 2" barrel
Any of the J frame 32s can easily handle being reamed to 32 H&R and it doesn't take a hour do do it
An extra 100fps does not make up for being 1/2 the weight, nor does 250fps make up for being 1/3 the weight.
2" barrel realities
946fps 40 gr 22 mag = 79ft/lb
700fps 85gr 32S&W long = 92ft/lb
845fps 85gr 32H&R mag=134ft/lb
814fps 110 gr 38 special+p=162ft/lb
756fps 135gr gold dot 38 spec=171ft/lb
The 32 isn't as powerful as a 38, but they do give you a 6th round and less recoil. Either 32 beats the 22 mag and the H&R does it with almost 70% more energy.
I own exactly 1 22mag cylinder that I can use in a K22. If I want more than a 22lr, I jump right over the 22 mag
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Anton Chigurh
Member
Like Dump1567, I have a 43c. It came with an outstandingly smooth trigger pull. It got a bit lighter after I clipped a coil (or 2) off the trigger rebound spring. Wouldn’t dream of messing with the mainspring/trigger spring. After a few hundred rounds and lots of dry firing it’s as good as a new unmodified centerfire model.
But I was lucky.
And it’s way easier to get fist sized groups at 7 yards because, well, no recoil. At worst, it’s a helluva practice gun.
I had a 351PD decade or so ago. I wasn’t in love with it. Mostly because the external hammer units don’t seem as smooth, and the hammer is unnecessary. It was also stupid loud and messy. Lots of unburned crud and it builds up fast.
But I’m considering getting a 351c because the 43c is so shootable and slips in a pocket like a cellphone. I’m the wrong side of 70 and getting good hits with a 22 Mag beats knocking down pine cones with a 38 +P or more.
Never had a misfire with either. I believe .22 Mag is held to higher standards than LR, but wouldn’t argue with someone who says otherwise.
But I was lucky.
And it’s way easier to get fist sized groups at 7 yards because, well, no recoil. At worst, it’s a helluva practice gun.
I had a 351PD decade or so ago. I wasn’t in love with it. Mostly because the external hammer units don’t seem as smooth, and the hammer is unnecessary. It was also stupid loud and messy. Lots of unburned crud and it builds up fast.
But I’m considering getting a 351c because the 43c is so shootable and slips in a pocket like a cellphone. I’m the wrong side of 70 and getting good hits with a 22 Mag beats knocking down pine cones with a 38 +P or more.
Never had a misfire with either. I believe .22 Mag is held to higher standards than LR, but wouldn’t argue with someone who says otherwise.
smoothshooter
Member
Larger calibers can fail to stop those kinds of guys too.
A bad buy does not always have to be ” stopped “ to save an innocent’s life.
If being shot makes the perp break off the attack and change his priorities so he can head to the hospital, mission accomplished.
While your statement is true, the key word in it is "IF"
IF the sight of a pocket knife stops an assault
IF the sight of an empty gun stops an assault
IF a 22 round stops an assault
IF a 38 special round stops an assault
IF a 45acp round stops an assault
IF a 50 BMG round stops an assault
IF a 105 howitzer round stops an assault
Some things have a whole lot less IF and and a lot more probably and when it comes to defending my life or my loved ones, the less IF the better.
I am not betting on any 22 IFs when that is my mission and a 32 or more is every bit as easy to carry and use. A 32 H&R is my very bottom line and a 325 45acp is my "normal" line.
Everyone else can make their own choices.
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A couple of things I picked out of these comments . Issues with rimfire reliability . IF you should get a FTF , pull the trigger again . That's the beauty of a revolver ..
The .22 will only make somebody mad . Check the statistics on that . I have personally watched EMS work on a guy that was shot in the chest with a .22 . He was flat on his back and in shock . They were concerned about a possible punctured lung . Long story short , run what ya brung .
I'll take a .22 over a knife any day .
The .22 will only make somebody mad . Check the statistics on that . I have personally watched EMS work on a guy that was shot in the chest with a .22 . He was flat on his back and in shock . They were concerned about a possible punctured lung . Long story short , run what ya brung .
I'll take a .22 over a knife any day .
As would I, but there is absolutely no good reason you should have to make that choice unless your out hunting rabbits when you suddenly need to defend yourself.
Just how long was it before the round was fired and the guy hit the deck in shock? A guy with a gun doesn't need a whole second to return fire or stab you. I will go back to my above statement about IFs
Meanwhile you have lost a bit of valuable time when every split second may mean the difference between life and death.
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The fact that people carry one and have for years doesn’t matter. What does matter is that you and only you are responsible for having a quality firearm that will work, and a round suitable to make an attacker unwilling or unable to fire his weapon at you. Only you or those around you will have to answer if you get it wrong.
Rounds like a .22 or .380 are not good at that. Unless….you are a “shot placement guy”. If you have the ability to put a round through an attacker’s eye while on the highest adrenalin pump you have probably ever experienced, go for it. I have been in shootings, and I know I do not have that ability.
Also..I personally responded to a shooting where a guy had been shot in the belly with a .380. He was more mad than hurt. AS the first responders were loading him into the ambulance I told them to save the bullet when they took it out at the hospital, and I would be in to get it. He responded with “You want that bullet!” and before they could stop him, he popped the bullet out of his belly and handed it to me. It obviously wasn’t very deep.
My personal experience with small rounds is that they are one step above worthless as a personal defense round. Just like my story of how worthless they are, you will hear stories about how they saved the day. I would never carry one, but there may be reasons that is all you can handle. They would be better than a stick….maybe.
Rounds like a .22 or .380 are not good at that. Unless….you are a “shot placement guy”. If you have the ability to put a round through an attacker’s eye while on the highest adrenalin pump you have probably ever experienced, go for it. I have been in shootings, and I know I do not have that ability.
Also..I personally responded to a shooting where a guy had been shot in the belly with a .380. He was more mad than hurt. AS the first responders were loading him into the ambulance I told them to save the bullet when they took it out at the hospital, and I would be in to get it. He responded with “You want that bullet!” and before they could stop him, he popped the bullet out of his belly and handed it to me. It obviously wasn’t very deep.
My personal experience with small rounds is that they are one step above worthless as a personal defense round. Just like my story of how worthless they are, you will hear stories about how they saved the day. I would never carry one, but there may be reasons that is all you can handle. They would be better than a stick….maybe.
skwchock
US Veteran
despite what the purists try to preach -- the .22WMR is a good stable round. It will make a hole and it can be fatal -- shoot what you feel comfortable with and disregard all the other so called "experts".
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I own a 351PD, 337Ti and. 432PD. I've carried them all at different times, but like the 337Ti best because it's in 38 Spl, which is a better defense round than 22WMR. And it's quite light too.
I do have to say that the weight of the 351PD is hard to beat. Loaded it weighs in around 13oz. The 337Ti loaded is a bit more then that. 351 hold 7 rounds, 432 6 rounds and the 337 5 rounds.
All things to consider.
I do have to say that the weight of the 351PD is hard to beat. Loaded it weighs in around 13oz. The 337Ti loaded is a bit more then that. 351 hold 7 rounds, 432 6 rounds and the 337 5 rounds.
All things to consider.
