357 in BEAR COUNTRY??

[Duke426]

I would choose a .44 Magnum because that is the largest thing I can shoot well. If I could handle a .460 or .500 then I would choose one of them. So I guess my advice would be, choose whatever the largest caliber is that you can shoot well. If that is "only" a .357 Magnum, that is still better than nothing.

 

[i8mtm]

I believe the *most* effective way to defend yourself against being eaten by a bear is to carry a .22 pistol and bacon.

Also.....ALWAYS fish or hike with another person.....preferably an ex-wife,
congressman or revenue agent.

Stash the bacon in your partner's pack or jacket when they are not looking.

If confronted by a bear, it *should* gravitate to your bacon-enhanced comrade. If things really get desperate, and you are confronted by a full-on grizzly charge...just shoot the other person in the leg with the .22 and run away!

Problem solved!

 

[Zilmo]

Man, I love bear threads.

 

[Texas Star]

Being a bear guide in Alaska, I could go on and on about how fast they can get onto you and how hard they are to kill. I pack a .44 Magnum or a heavily loaded .45 Colt.
BUT, a friend of mine had to kill a black bear this past summer with a .357. He said it was about a 200 pound animal and the 357 worked great, putting him down in a hurry.
It was in his campsite and acting very aggressive. After he had killed the bear the park rangers showed up looking for a problem bear. They were trying to kill it. They still gave him a ticket for saving them the trouble. No fine, just a citation to cover their butts. Typical.
Remember the three S's
Shoot
Shovel
Shut up

Where'd his bullet hit it? Do you know his load and bullet weight?

 

[ect1222t]

Grizzlies do have an attitude.

Bring a 357 that you can shoot well and save the last shot for yourself!

Attitude? Ya think? They're nothing BUT attitude. They are the masters of everything they see and they know it. WE just don't know it! Black bears are nothing to take lightly either. I have them come through the yard occasionally. A few years back a mother and her cub came through the yard, and one of the dogs barked at the cub, as he didn't like it eating his food. The cub took a swipe at the dog (Boxer/Golden lab cross- good sized) and proceeded to throw the dog's house up into a tree. The mother was busy eating another dog's food while he wisely cowered in his dog house. They may look soft and cuddly, but they're stronger than you think. The biggest handgun I have is a .357, but knowing bears, about the only way it would kill a bear is to put the barrel into the bear's ear and pull the trigger while he's making a meal of you. Pepper spray, despite what the eco-freaks say, will only add flavor to the bear's meal. A bear's skull will deflect most handgun rounds. My late father-in law was a game warden with Montana Fish and Game, now known as Montana Department of Fish, Wildlife, and Parks. He loved the model 66 he was Issued, but would not count on it to kill anything other than an animal that was already down and had to be put out of it's misery. Back in 1968, I worked in Silvergate, Montana, just outside Yellowstone Park, and just about every one was talking about two hunters who had been killed the previous hunting season. From what evidence was there, it was concluded that the hunters, one armed with a .30-30, and the other with a .30-06, had been attacked by a grizzly (bear, not a University of Montana athlete). Both hunters had emptied their weapons into the griz, who didn't like it. The hunters were killed in a grizzly manner (pun intended),and their Jeep had been pushed or tossed off of the road. The bear was found a few miles away, it had bled to death. - Ed.

 

[Titan]

FINALLY! Titan, you got it. Just looking for another excuse to buy one more!!

Get thee to a gun shop and SPEND!

.

 

[BlueMntCeltic2]

Agreed, instantaneous stops are hard, even for a 45-70

I had no idea this was so controversial...

I am not saying you have no chance of surviving a bear or moose attack with a handgun. What I am saying is that if this happens -- and it is highly unlikely -- then it is also rather unlikely that you will stop the attacking animal with a handgun. The abstract ability to kill the animal is not the same as the ability to stop it instantly with a handgun. You can definitely kill a bear with a handgun. Since a handgun is (general premise) too small, the larger the better.

If a bear attacked me and I had a handgun (of any caliber) I would try to protect myself. Maybe I would be lucky...but I'm not very optimistic... Common sense will do a lot more to protect you. Things like, do not approach a moose, do not leave things in your campsite that will attract bears, have something that makes noise while you are walking, etc.

No arguement with applying liberal amounts of common sense, and I'm not looking to pick a fight with an angry grizzly, moose, elk, deer....badger, wolverine...etc. Adrenalin in the veins of an angry or scared mammal allows them to withstand all sorts of injury.

Gunfighters of the old west used to talk about the dead man's 10 seconds, in which they could inflict a number of serious to mortal wounds on their opponents themselves. . . food for thought.

You've made a good point,

nuf said?

BMC

 

[Revolver King]

No bear or moose story here, I don't like big magnums, but if I were going into bear or moose country, I would go out and buy at least a 44 magnum.
That being said, I plan on staying out of that kind of country.

 

[BlueMntCeltic2]

Fish and Feather shotguns vs. 45-70 GG

Common sense will do a lot more to protect you. Things like, do not approach a moose, do not leave things in your campsite that will attract bears, have something that makes noise while you are walking, etc.

[I have been reading with amazement that no one has jumped on the "file the front sight off" bandwagon yet Alaska probably sells more 44 Mag handguns per capita than any other state. The old "I'm in Alaska got to have one" deal. Has alot to do with why 44 ammo is tough to come by. Note to C&L I see the tabs on my plates have expired. gr8 in regards to the Brush episode with the 454 Casull in my mind the jury is still out on wither or not it was a DLP situation. Lastly gizamo. It's not the Chick-a-dees up here it's the skeeters cuz they can stand flat-footed and mate with a turkey. What do the fish & feather boys up here carry? Shotguns What do I carry? Model 60-15 357 go figure[/QUOTE]

Interesting that you mention the armament of the F & W service. Last summer I got into reading a couple of books on bear attacks (can't find the reference right off). The author was an expert from British Columbia and went around teaching how to avoid attacks and training govt. and private loggers how to defend, using a shotgun. However, if I recall correctly, he mentioned that he now recommended a 45-70 and that there was movement toward carrying that caliber. Don't recall the reasoning.

My personal reasoning for carrying the rifle rather than the shotgun is that it can reach out further and begin the fight, if there's going to be one, a little further away and you get in the first punch with the possibility of ending the fight right there. Lots of folks on the Marlin forum talk about their 'bang flop' stops with this caliber. Kind of negating the 'it always runs away' side of things. My personal experience is that I've had some run a few yards, but most go down hard and fast, and they aren't with central nervous system hits either. Some have been through the chest when the animal was at a dead run and the only reason it traveled beyond the spot where I hit him was his own momentum at the time.

By the way, the part about starting the fight on my own terms comes from that reading, the author spent a lot of time describing the behavior clues of both black bears (an increasing threat up there in BC) and grizzly which are indicators that the bear is predatory rather than startled or curious. Seems that many attacks start out generally looking like the bear is just moseying through, when in reality, you've been on the top of the menu for quite a while....

My $0.02,

BMC

 

[PAPA777]

However, if I recall correctly, he mentioned that he now recommended a 45-70 and that there was movement toward carrying that caliber.


My $0.02,

BMC[/QUOTE]
BMC..Guess what I have my eye on? Yup Marlin 45-70 The bears I have taken in Alaska were all taken with 458 Win Mag. Which believe or not was traded some time back for pair of S&W handguns By the way loved hunting in the Blues when I lived in Washington.

 

[Buford57]

Nothing smaller

...than a .50 BMG EVER - these beasts are not human! Preferably something belt fed, since they have been known to soak up direct hits between the eyes from a Boyes anti-tank rifle while proceeding on to disembowel locomotives. IF, just if, you are able to give them the "whole 9 yards" with hits to vital organs, you might survive long enough to scratch some last words in the dirt. On the other hand, he might shrug off your bullets and kill you so bad your relatives back home will die of sympathy.

Personally, I carry an 8-gauge with 2 oz titanium solids over a full case of TNT.

Now that we've dispensed with the Chick-a-dees, I read in Outdoor Life years ago about an Alaskan trapper who was surprised by a grizzly on his way to the outhouse, emptied his Colt Woodsman into the bear from the hip and it was DRT. So if the .357 is too heavy, a .22 LR should do the trick.

 

[roosterk]

Speaking of bear attack stories.......

A few years back some European scientists came to the Rockies to study grizzly behavior. One was from Russia, and the other was from Czechoslovakia. They went up into Montana, but when they were scheduled to return they didn't show up, so a team of rangers went looking for them. They finally found their campground, and a male and a female grizzly were hanging around. Fearing the worst, they killed the female, and sure enough, found bits of the Russian's body and clothing. One ranger turned to the other and said, "You know what this means, don't you?

"The Czechs in the male!"
I know, I know, this belongs in the Lounge, but I couldn't resist.

roosterk

 

[OHIOUP]

The problem bears I"ve known of in Michigan's UP have been encouraged by misguided people who feed them and careless people who don't secure their trash. I've heard of one incident in the past 5 years where a man walking his dog in the woods was bit on the arm when he unknowingly got between a mother and her cubs. Bear attacks are really quite rare.
The best defense for either north american bear is knowledge of bear motivation and behavior combined with respect for the creature when in its habitat. The two species have behavior similarities but also important differences. Most of us have never even seen a brown bear in the wild. More of us have seen black bears, I suppose. If you go to bear country, first learn a little about bears from a reputable source. Reading Stephen Herrero's book, Bear Attacks and Andy Russell's Grizzly Country would be a start toward learning how to act in bear country....knowing the ways to avoid confrontation is the first line of defense. Even in bear country one's statistcal chance of having a dangerous bear/human encounter is incredibly tiny. That said, if carrying gun would make you feel better, then the choice is personal. You'll likely carry it the rest of your life without having to draw down on a charging bear. The rest is just "birds chattering on a branch." As for chickadees, face the facts. We are defenseless against them.

 

[jspick]

You know after reading all this the best info given is knowledge.

Will you be attacked by a black bear--- not very likely.
Will you be messed with by a grizzly---probally not.

But I never go without a gun of sometype. More so now for wolves. They have been following and harrassing people more so now as thier over population keeps growing. There have been 2 "offical" wolf attacks now and several more probabols. Am I afraid of wolves--no. But any animal that hunts in packs is not safe to be around.

My biggest concern anymore is the 2 legged trash walking around intimidating and robbing people. Ever since we have had this last housing boom and now crash. Our neck of the woods is full of 2 legged trash.

I'd carry a 44 just to intimidate back.

John

 

[10mmillie]

For a 357 the perfect carry gun is a 686 4". There is plenty of talk about bigger calibers but bullet placement is what matters. Shoot them through the lungs or neck and try to find a good tree to climb.

 

[DJINCO]

You know after reading all this the best info given is knowledge.

Will you be attacked by a black bear--- not very likely.
Will you be messed with by a grizzly---probally not.

But I never go without a gun of sometype. More so now for wolves. They have been following and harrassing people more so now as thier over population keeps growing. There have been 2 "offical" wolf attacks now and several more probabols. Am I afraid of wolves--no. But any animal that hunts in packs is not safe to be around.

My biggest concern anymore is the 2 legged trash walking around intimidating and robbing people. Ever since we have had this last housing boom and now crash. Our neck of the woods is full of 2 legged trash.

I'd carry a 44 just to intimidate back.

John

I must concur with you John.

For a 357 the perfect carry gun is a 686 4". There is plenty of talk about bigger calibers but bullet placement is what matters. Shoot them through the lungs or neck and try to find a good tree to climb.

Agree wholeheartedly 10mmillie. Shot placement and familiarity with your gun is most important.

 

[holo]

.44 mtn gun

if you are in the mtns. should you not carry a mtn. gun 629 .44 for me

 

[S&W-Keeper]

I would suggest a good pair of running shoes.Drop the .357 so you can run faster.

 

[FHBrumb]

Get a short barrel 500.

If a 357 is all you can do, I'd suggest the Double Tap 200 grain flat nose hardcast.

 

[DJINCO]

OK, I must ask....









How many pages will this thread go?


10?


20?



or will it die?