5" bbl 617?

[kimber 22]

I'm a huge fan of using the 617 for training new shooters for several reasons; however, the 6" barrel gets a tad nose heavy for some because of the full lug. What I am planning is to have a barrel shortened to 5" and have remove the lug. (I know there is a 4" barrel, but I prefer a slightly longer sight radius.)

Has anyone here done anything like this?

 

[AveragEd]

I doubt it and these days, there is a very good reason not to - the escalating value of mint condition 617s. With four-inch guns fetching close to $1,000 and six-inchers close behind, altering one would be foolish. Why not look for a six-inch without the full underlug?

Ed

 

[k22fan]

The last internet sale of a no lug 617 I saw was around $1,700 and that was a year or two ago. They are rare. A day or two ago someone posted they bought a 4" 617-1 off GB for the absurd sum of $1,000. If that is typical of current 617 sales you can probably raise that $1,700 value for a no lug 617 50% so one is not likely a feasible option.

There are however lots of no-lug 6" model 17s around. Like the no-lug 617s the most common 17s made as they were for a few decades have barrels and barrel ribs that taper. The weight reduction from only de-lugging probably wouldn't satisfy you because you would still have a bull barrel with a wide rib.

The additional weight reduction from shortening the barrel might lighten it enough, but paying big money to cut down your 617's value doesn't make financial sense, unless like mine it's going to be buried with you. In that case resale value is irrelevant and you want it in the condition that will have you smiling in your coffin.

Since it wouldn't need to be reblued you could remove the lug yourself with only a grinder, files, radius gauges and refinishing abrasives. Here is a thread posted by a member who de-lugged their 586: http://smith-wessonforum.com/s-w-revolvers-1980-present/189734-586-lug-cut-down.html

If you tackle the job, or pay a smith to do it, please post pictures and give all the details of how it went. Id love to own a no-lug 617.

 

[fat tom]

If it's a 10-shot with the lock,you have my blessings.
f.t.

 

[Jebus35745]

I'm giving Andy Horvath a K-22 to cut the bbl to 5" for me. I want a gold bead front sight put on and re-blued. He told me 250.00 to 275.00. For what I paid for the gun and cutting the bbl, I'll have under 800.00 in. You won't need to re-blue it so it shouldn't cost over 200.00. You will have a neat gun when finished. Just make sure it shoots good before you invest the money. Larry

 

[cal50]

I recently shortened my 500 magnum s&w barrel, I shortened my 625 barrel and I was considering cutting my 617 down to 5". I have not made any serious measurements yet. I know the sight height on the 617 is kind of funky for the front & rear leaf height.

 

[BlueOvalBandit]

Someone one the Enos board did a barrel job and converted their 617 to the slab side 627 PC profile. It was pretty slick and I imagine it took off quite a bit of weight.

the 617 that Smith & Wesson should have made - Revolver Forum - Brian Enos's Forums... Maku mozo!

 

[jack the toad]

If it's a 10-shot with the lock,you have my blessings.
f.t.

+1
And unless I did the mods myself, I'd look for a suitable gun to buy or swap for.

 

[kimber 22]

Thanks for all the feedback!

I doubt it and these days, there is a very good reason not to - the escalating value of mint condition 617s. With four-inch guns fetching close to $1,000 and six-inchers close behind, altering one would be foolish. Why not look for a six-inch without the full underlug?

Ed

You're spot-on Ed, they are bringing insane prices on Gun Broker and the like. I know collectors might have palpitations over my idea, though it is possible I would pursue having a second barrel cut and keeping the original 6" one. I've already done enough polishing with lead removal cloths on the forcing cone and cylinder face to minimize lead buildup to make many of them cringe.

The last internet sale of a no lug 617 I saw was around $1,700 and that was a year or two ago. They are rare. A day or two ago someone posted they bought a 4" 617-1 off GB for the absurd sum of $1,000. If that is typical of current 617 sales you can probably raise that $1,700 value for a no lug 617 50% so one is not likely a feasible option

I have never seen a 617 with no lug, so it will no doubt be cheaper to alter an existing one.

There are however lots of no-lug 6" model 17s around. Like the no-lug 617s the most common 17s made as they were for a few decades have barrels and barrel ribs that taper. The weight reduction from only de-lugging probably wouldn't satisfy you because you would still have a bull barrel with a wide rib.

I have a 6" 17, and get very nervous when students handle the beautiful gun. The 17 has a noticeably lighter feel than the 617 for most people I've had handle both, albeit subjective; probably because the center of gravity moves rearward with the lighter bbl. The profile on my 17 is visually identical to my 617's except for the lug, so I had thought about the rib and you have a point. Chopping the inch should help move the center of gravity back far enough for most people.

The additional weight reduction from shortening the barrel might lighten it enough, but paying big money to cut down your 617's value doesn't make financial sense, unless like mine it's going to be buried with you. In that case resale value is irrelevant and you want it in the condition that will have you smiling in your coffin.

Pretty much what I was thinking!

Since it wouldn't need to be reblued you could remove the lug yourself with only a grinder, files, radius gauges and refinishing abrasives. Here is a thread posted by a member who de-lugged their 586: http://smith-wessonforum.com/s-w-revolvers-1980-present/189734-586-lug-cut-down.html

I've been considering that.... Thanks for the link!

If you tackle the job, or pay a smith to do it, please post pictures and give all the details of how it went. Id love to own a no-lug 617.

Absolutely! Please don't hold your breath though, because we all know good gunsmiths have a long line...

If it's a 10-shot with the lock,you have my blessings.
f.t.

No way I want to clean 10 cylinders on a target shooter! Yer probably gonna hate me FT...

I'm giving Andy Horvath a K-22 to cut the bbl to 5" for me. I want a gold bead front sight put on and re-blued. He told me 250.00 to 275.00. For what I paid for the gun and cutting the bbl, I'll have under 800.00 in. You won't need to re-blue it so it shouldn't cost over 200.00. You will have a neat gun when finished. Just make sure it shoots good before you invest the money. Larry

I'll check him out - thanks for the tip Jebus. It shoots...

I know the sight height on the 617 is kind of funky for the front & rear leaf height.

The 6" bbl uses a .167" front sight, though I'm not sure about the rear. This could mean you can't use a Hi-Viz sight, but a typical sight could be filed to a suitable height.

 

[k22fan]

If you are not inclined to remove the lug yourself here's a suggestion. Seek out a used 6" 17 barrel. Pay a smith or have S&W rebarrel your 617 then store the original barrel in the 617's box so you can restore collector value later. When barrels are fitted all the machining is done on the barrel, not the frame. Usually the old barrel will reseat with enough torque. The local gun smith charges $35 for reinstalling a barrel that doesn't require a spin in the lathe. However, if the current barrel was installed with just barely enough torque it would need lathe turning before reinstallation. You can't predict that before removal. After reinstallation future collectors couldn't tell the original barrel had been removed.

However, with a blued barrel on a stainless revolver you would tire of answering the question "did you change the barrel on your gun?" [How would I know such a thing?] The 617 would look better if the 17 barrel was satin chrome plated. Satin chrome plated guns are often mistaken for stainless steel so very few people wound notice the color difference, but if you're confident you'd never want to restore collector value for best appearance the whole 617 could be satin chrome plated.

I'm familiar with this stuff because the idiots in S&W's marketing department ruined their .22 revolver bullseye barrel. The 8 3/8" length came about because 8 3/8" gave the maximum 10" sight radius allowed in old bullseye competition. It's tough to shoot a full lug wide rib 8 3/8" bull barrel one handed. Apparently those idiots didn't get a clue from almost no sales.

Now if those idiots want an idea that would really sell: a 6 shot 5" 617 Mountain Gun. They'd at least sell two to us.

 

[03Fatboy]

It's yours to do what you want with. Your one firearm of many many made. Don't worry, as the purist here will tell you not to because of this and that, but it's still yours in the end. To each his own, go for it!

Smith didn't always get it right, so why not make it right, be sure to have someone who knows what they are doing or you won't be happy with it.

 

[TANZER]

617 Modification

Attached photo is a 617-1 shipped in 1998 to a S&W distributor in Germany.

 

[slickracer]

Attached photo is a 617-1 shipped in 1998 to a S&W distributor in Germany.

I want one!

 

[kimber 22]

I like the way you think K22! The more I've considered it, the more an extra bbl seems like a good idea, although likely in stainless. Perhaps an 8 3/8" could be cut down and made into two bbls... Thanks for the explanation on that length, too. I'd always wondered about that. Make it at least three on the mountain gun, 'cause I know someone else who is planning on doing the exact same conversion as me!

Your comments on replacing the barrel, torquing, etc. bring up another question. The obvious way to do this project is cut down the muzzle, remove the lug, and install a front sight. Another possibility, at least in theory, would be through barrel setback - cut the breech, rethread, make a new ejector shroud, and remove the rest of the lug. Patrick Sweeney makes it sound relatively easy if you have a mill and a lathe and know how to use them, but so far, gunsmiths don;t seem to keen on that idea. The main advantage is you don;t mess with the front sight.

Attached photo is a 617-1 shipped in 1998 to a S&W distributor in Germany.

And they won't make me a 5" bbl???

 

[AveragEd]

I willingly admit to being one of the purists who say you shouldn't deface a firearm that is as sought-after and valuable in its original form as a pre-IL, pre-MIM, six-shot Model 617. And while yours might well be "one of many, many made," it sure isn't one of many, many for sale so replacing it with another if that project turns south will be costly. I stand by my suggestion that you start with a much less valuable and more readily available model of S&W rimfire revolver for your project, which I do think will result in a really nice handgun.

But nice as that result might be, it doesn't justify such a severe alteration of an otherwise unmolested 617. Others on here might encourage you to have this conversion performed. But then, it isn't their gun, is it?

Ed

 

[Bello]

GB butt humped me for a 617 = $900.00

#YOLO

 

[k22fan]

GB butt humped me for a 617 = $900.00

#YOLO

There are bad years, or bad periods of a few years for buying guns or certain types of guns. Before selling me my first DA .45 in 1974 a middle aged clerk told me it was a bad time to buy big bore DAs and that I'd be smart to wait a few years. That clerk tried to sell me a brand new 5" 27-2, TT, TH and TS for the same $175 I paid him for a Colt .455 reamed to .45 Colt. I wanted a big bore. Big slugs were being written up in all the grocery store gun magazines as the manly way to go for home defense. I enjoyed firing the .45 Colt, but boy was that clerk correct! By the mid-80s the price of used 29-2s collapsed to half of what it had been and the price of all big bore DAs tumbled along with 29s.

A collapse of modern shaped simi-auto rifles occurred after the buying panic in the mid-90s and a similar collapse may be starting.

I bought my 4" 617-1 winter 2000 used for $270 plus tax, under $300 OTD, and my 6" 617-1 a few months later off a gun show table for $250. Early 2008 it was tough trying to recover the $430 I'd paid for a 10 shot 6" 617 a few years before. We are in a bad time to buy most guns! You choose to open GB, drop your briefs and press your checks against the screen, or not.

 

[kimber 22]

I willingly admit to being one of the purists who say you shouldn't deface a firearm that is as sought-after and valuable in its original form as a pre-IL, pre-MIM, six-shot Model 617. And while yours might well be "one of many, many made," it sure isn't one of many, many for sale so replacing it with another if that project turns south will be costly. I stand by my suggestion that you start with a much less valuable and more readily available model of S&W rimfire revolver for your project, which I do think will result in a really nice handgun.

But nice as that result might be, it doesn't justify such a severe alteration of an otherwise unmolested 617. Others on here might encourage you to have this conversion performed. But then, it isn't their gun, is it?

Ed

Good advice Ed, but it isn't going to be for sale, and it's not my only one... Its primary purpose is training new shooters. Smaller statured shooters often find the full lug barrel heavy. I get nervous about the bluing when some of them handle a 17. With the number of special or custom shop runs Smith has done over the years with odd sized barrel lengths, I am surprised they've never done this one.

 

[OldGrump]

GB butt humped me for a 617 = $900.00

#YOLO

Wish I would have know you were looking for a 617. I would have sold you my NIB 4inch, 617 for $800.00, shipped..

 

[Nedroe]

3" 17-8 10 shot

I cut this down from a 6"

Debated for about 5 minutes on whether it should be a 5" or a 3"
Not hard if you have the tools.

Ned