617-6 .22 Kaboom

[500 Magnum Nut]

There is a possibility the bushing could have moved forward and hit 3 cartridges at the same time. If this is the cause, I'd contact S&W and have your gun looked at.

Look at the firing pin bushing and see if it's working loose. Dry fire it with the cylinder open and look if the bushing moves forward.

Just a note, that I don't have a 10 shot here to prove my theory. If the bushing is wide enough, then that's a good guess what has occurred.

 

[red9]

In the picture of the frame, the aperture for the hand extends up into where the edge of the adjacent cartridge apparently was.
Could the hand, in the trigger fully to the rear position, have pertruded against the rim? That would be a gun, not ammunition, problem.

Bob

 

[tomcatt51]

Look at the firing pin bushing and see if it's working loose. Dry fire it with the cylinder open and look if the bushing moves forward.

This seems possible looking at the pic of his recoil shield. I have had one 10 shot 617 in my hands that had a loose firing pin bushing but all it did was tie up the cylinder and prevent it from rotating.

 

[Sevenshooter]

Thanks again for all the input!

500, No the firing pin bushing is still seated well and is tight.

The round that was next to the firing pin round is the one that went boom. Looking at it closely under a 4x loupe, there were no marks on the rim of that round where something may have struck it. The brass did split open nearly the length of the cartridge, and looked like on the opposite side it was fixin' to split there as well.

When that went off it looks like that is what sent a jet of gas around the blast shield, and into the chamber under the firing pin forcing the rim of that round into the cylinder as the pic shows.

The extractor does look like the edges are protruding into the chambers on the pic, but the star does have "play" in it and will rotate in and out of the chamber entrance a bit, but when you push a round into the cyl, it aligns the star and nothing is dragging on the brass. All my Smith revo's stars look and move the same way.

Sorry, I do feel kind of funny with the thread going on and on, but it bugs me not knowing what the heck happened, and all of your input into this sure helps a person look at it from a multitude of angles, which all go into the knowledge bank that I and others can use for future issues... should any arise.

I sent the bad rounds to Federal and will post what they find when they get back to me.

Thanks again!

Ss

 

[Maximumbob54]

I want to throw out one last bone about the extractor. The cartridge marked "next round" had a pretty obvious mark on it that looks just like the extractor ate into it. So with the star that far off this looks like it could happen again any time. To support my theory I'm throwing a little Taurus 94 mud in everyone's eyes. Note how the extractor star is darn near uniform in all the charge holes. So one cartridge, maybe an overcharge, knocks the extractor star into the "next round" and cuts into it just a little, the burning gas ignites the "next round"'s powder, which somehow sets off the third cartridge. Dominoes.

I'm done now, that is all my two cents. And I did throw the bull in everyone's eyes...

 

[Titegroups]

Kaboom, I thought that was a Glocktalk term, certainly childish.

 

[2sigs]

Kaboom, I thought that was a Glocktalk term, certainly childish.

Well I've experianced 45ACP case web Rupture in a 1911 and I tell you KABOOM is not a childish term, it's Reality!

Certainly an interesting thread, Thanks for posting

Keep us posted

 

[Sevenshooter]

*UPDATE* 617-6 .22 Kaboom

I said I'd post when I found out anything about what may have caused the .22 to "go off" by itself in the next chamber on my new 617.

Happy to say, I have since fired... has to be around 1000 rounds of Federal Bulk Pack, as well as CCI Blazer Bulk Pack without so much as a hiccup from this fantastic revolver.

I sware the trigger and action just gets smoother the more I shoot it. Also, this beauty is crazy accurate.

I did get an answer from Federal, after sending them the rounds pictured in earier posts. They sent me a Bulk Pack of the .22 ammo for free with their appoligies for having a problem with their product, and about a month later I got a letter from them appreciating my sending the bad rounds back to them, and I suppose they really had no answer as to what caused the round to go off, as they appologized for my having a problem with their product and explained how they strive to have top quality control, and how things like this are not common to their products. It wasn't just a form letter, because they did refer to my particular situation.

I was glad to get "some" sort of an answer from them. Shows me it wasn't forgotten about.

Probably just one of those things that happens with no explanation for it.

I'm satisfied. I have no problems using their ammo, and I have no concerns with the 617.

One thing, as I stated in an earlier post, from what happened, it is a good reminder to wear safety glasses and pay attention to what/who is near you when shooting. When something goes wrong as happened here, and luckily it was only a .22, there is no warning. No time to "get away" or duck. Being prepared and aware at all times will save somebody getting hurt.

Ss

 

[charlix]

I'd say a case head rupture set off the next round. Reason for the recessed case head cylinder. But I just drive the truck.

 

[TAROMAN]

I'd say a case head rupture set off the next round. Reason for the recessed case head cylinder. But I just drive the truck.

I had always thought that the recessed cylinders on my old M17 and M18 were a bit of overdesign.

This thread has caused me reassess that idea.

 

[augy]

Hi.

I had my new 617 out today, going through Federal Bulk Pak ammo, which I shoot a ton of and have not had any problems.

I reloaded the cylinder, started shooting and Pow! Loud detonation and pieces of lead sprayed out the sides of the cyl.

Turns out, the round under the firing pin fired, but so did the round on both sides of it. It was the first shot after a reload so there was a live round on both sides of the first round fired. The rounds on either side of the one lined up with the barrel went off and the bullets just disintigrated on the edge of the barrel and the frame, and on the blast shield side you can see where the rounds shoved back out of the cyl and left marks on the blast shield. The brass left in those two cylinder bores was twisted and deformed.

The cyl. needed a little smack to get it open, but I don't see where it did any damage. Cleaned it up a bit, checked it out and kept shooting. I think it is ok. Still shot dead on and accurate. Barrel clean, cylinder rotates and locks up like it should.

My question is, what the heck would have lit off the 2 adjacent rounds? Is it because the 10 rnd. cyl. has the bores so close together? At first I thought the one round that the firing pin hit was loaded too hot (Federal error?) and the shock set off the other two?

This is a new one for me. Anyone out there heard of this happening on a 10 rnd. .22?

Thanks for any input.

Ss

Just an idea, since you fired quite a few rounds before this happened, is it possible the rounds didn't go into the cylinders far enough, and when you fired the gun, the adjacent rounds were forced back into the shield area causing them to ignite. ~Just an idea~.
augy

 

[Collin642]

kaboom

This is my two cents. After looking at the photos i believe what happened is. The revolver was getting hot due to firing alot. Something was wrong with the round being srtuck by the firing pin(hotter than usual load). As that round fires and ruptured it caused the second chamber to cook off & fire due to the chambers being close together. A very unlikely thing to happen. 22 ammo is not loaded very accuratly compared to centerfire ammo.

 

[CAJUNLAWYER]

Well, I figured it out. Go back and look closely at the pictures posted. The 617 has the Internal Lock-that's what caused it.

 

[Shooting Padre]

I'm looking forward to any ideas that come from your emails to S&W and Federal. I have shot many boxes of Federal 550 bulk with no problems, it's my go too plinking round. I have a K22 Model 18 that really likes them. The K22 seems to have a time ejecting spent cases, but the Federal works like a charm. Please keep us posted, this is a very interesting occurrence. Thank you for posting.

 

[StanBo]

Did Federal or S&W ever get back to you Sevenshooter? Found this thread on a search.

 

[kudzu3]

case head failure and jet of gas detonated next round?????

That would be my guess also.

 

[TSQUARED]

Sevenshooter,
After examining all the photos you provided and your description of the incident I would conclude:
1) this problem was not caused by the revolver
2) you had a hotter than normal or double charged round which cooked off the adjacent rounds.
I have almost 20,000 rounds through my 10 shot S&W 617 using either Federal or Remington bulk pack ammo. Fortunately I have not encountered any similar issues. I have experienced split brass cases using Remngton Golden bulk pack ammo in one of my 1911's 22 conversion unit and have stopped using that ammo in the unit.

 

[M29since14]

I would guess a case head failure too. This was an interesting thread. I missed it way back when so I am glad it was revived. I have shot a long time and never seen or heard of this type of malfunction. Interesting.

Cajunlawyer... D)

 

[Twysted]

...snip...

If nothing else from this thread, take away the reminder that no matter what caliber you are shooting, you never know when something out of your control could go wrong. Always best to have safety glasses on and proper hold on the gun, and also who is standing perhaps too close to the shooter should something like this ever happen again, 'cause fragments of lead did spray out the sides of the gun and hit what was close to me.

Take care!

Ss

There's a lesson in this for all of us.

Even a .22 can turn a good day into a bad day.

Eyes and ears. Every time.


We just added a 617 to our little collection. Love it! Glad this was an isolated incident.

 

[Delos]

Almost perfect conclusion

Well, maybe I have the start of a theory.

My first wild guess is that there was a trail of powder between the bullet and shell of the "Next" bullet. (It is why they waxed the ends of the cylinders of black powder revolvers).

Looking at picture 2 of 4, the open connection between the recesses of the two shell heads focused the backward blast back toward the first shell giving it a nice place to relieve the second burst of pressure down the barrel. (A good thing?) (Which might give me a reason to buy one of those -- after inspecting the other end of the cylinder/barrel interface).

So… By the numbers (I am sticking my neck out hoping some gunsmith here will correct me)

1. The bullet under the firing pin is collapsed. It's own pressure would only expand it outward. So I must assume it collapsed when the next shell fired slightly after it had fired.

2. Naturally I assume the bullet from the next shell hit the edge of the barrel delaying the lowering of pressure. The shell split and the gasses went both directions. The gasses that went backward around the rim of the bullet seems to have bent down the rim of the "firing pin" shell then went down the barrel.

(It would be nice to see a photo of the front of the cylinder when closed - so we could estimate how small an opening the slug had to squeeze out).

3. When the hand rotates the cylinder -- It pushes on the ratchet surfaces on the extractor. How much play is in the extractor star when pushed sideways inside one cylinder with a wood stick (or toothbrush handle - something that will not scratch).
But naturally I assume the extractor mark on the "next" bullet are cosmetic -- (meaning the case is not punctured at that point).

(If I were you I would fire the rest of those .22 bullets out of a rifle, or maybe semi auto pistol. Or maybe a revolver with lots of room around the ends of the cylinder - six shot? Something with no deflection of hot gasses and room for neighboring rimfire bullets to fly out unobstructed - if such exists?)

(legal advice statement - I am old and almost senile - and my opinions are not to be trusted. Try to sue me and I will drool on the desk in court).