986 Problem

[NJM15]

Got my 986 on 8/23 fired about 100 rds through it
the cylinder release seemed harder to push than any of my other Smiths. Eventually at the range today I just about got it opened without any undo force, popped out the expelled brass and clip inserted a loaded clip now the cylinder wont lock into place. Took it into the store at the range where I bought it ,the girl looked at it and took a brand new 986 out of the case to compare, and found the pin that locks the forward end of the ejector shaft in place was worn at a bevel. I cleaned and lubed it after every use using mil 25 grease and Hoppes oil where needed. The gun is there waiting for the gunsmith to come in tomorrow to examine it and possibly a trip back to S&W.
Man what a bummer I really like this gun and gave it a commendable report on the forum

 

[forrestinmathews]

Let me guess...you were shooting reloads? If you were the chances are you got powder under the star...reloads crimped for pistols don't always works in revolvers due to the kinetic bullet pulling effect of the recoil. Listen for different sounding shots when you shoot it next and look for blackened brass on the outside. Those are symptoms of semifixed ammunition or bullets pulling out of loaded metallic cartridges.

 

[NJM15]

Let me guess...you were shooting reloads? If you were the chances are you got powder under the star...reloads crimped for pistols don't always works in revolvers due to the kinetic bullet pulling effect of the recoil. Listen for different sounding shots when you shoot it next and look for blackened brass on the outside. Those are symptoms of semifixed ammunition or bullets pulling out of loaded metallic cartridges.

Your guess was correct reloads were used, I used to get powder burns on the cases started using Power Pistol and the Lee factory crimp die and all but completely eliminated the problem, it still doesn't explain the wear on the spring loaded pin that engages the extractor rod compared to a new one examined at the store. It looks like the star was fully retracted in the cylinder Thanks for the reply ill know more tomorrow when the Smith takes a look at it

 

[forrestinmathews]

Yeah you've got a bevel on that pin to allow the cylinder to shut more easily.

I'll bet somebody is going to learn the lesson of semiauto rounds loaded into moonclips need more crimp. I had to learn it. Twice. Once in my 625 and recently again some years later in my 929. Both times I kept having problems with bullets being stuck in the throats of the cylinder. Partial fired cylinders are a necessary evil in competition, but missing a bullet stuck in a throat and loading behind it...whoa Nelly! Powder on hands ever....stop and check the gun. I'd rather lose a competition than my gun. I have a recently heavy crimp on all my loads. From 9-40-10-45. Never had an issue with feeding in autos and my revos eat them all day long with no bullet pulling.

One more thing if I may, I always consolidate moonclips in practice and at matches and fire them up. Bullet pulling is no joke and I have seen consolidated ammo live on for some time. If it were a big match I would not consolidate ever. Leave the survivors to be shot up in practice. I had two malfunctions due to bullets getting stuck in the cylinder during partial cylinder reloads. At one point I couldn't close the gun because there was so much powder under the star.

Case in point: I was testing a gun for function with a buddy's Winchester primed 147gr handloads crimped for an auto accuracy load. I used up most in practice and had only a few odd rounds left. The match ammo was all federal primed. I was consolidating clips as the match went on and was doing my best to shoot up the consolidated clips first and reloading to fresh clips. Imagine my surprise when the Winchester primer pops up on the next to last stage of a match in the starter clip. I had loaded it in the starter clip on the first stage of the match! It lived through five stages being unshot in the first clip. This is both a statistical nightmare and a worst case scenario of bullet pulling exposure.

 

[pinto]

Good catch on the crimp issue.
For that very reason I have a set of Hornady 9mm dies that allow me to roll crimp those loads destined for the 986.

 

[scooter123]

Query, does your 986 use a Detent on the Yoke for the forward lock or does it feature the older style forward lock on the Ejector Rod. If your forward lock is the older style the problem you described is EXACTLY what happens when the Ejector Rod starts to unscrew from the Extractor Star. For a true Gunsmith that is about 45 seconds to fix. Because all you have to do is properly tighten the Ejector Rod. BTW, part of doing this properly is placing a full clip of fired cases into the cylinder.

 

[S&WIowegan]

I have experienced severe bullet pull when shooting my 325 PD revolver in IDPA matches. My ammo is handloads using Starline brass and 230 gr. FMJ bullets with a moderate dose of VV-N310. My experience shooting S&W moonclip revos is that used brass eventually loses its' ability to hold adequate surface tension on the bullet and crimping isn't able to compensate for that on jacketed bullets. I also believe the extreme light weight of the gun makes the bullet pull worse.

I experienced a poofy load where the bullet was already out of the case pre-ignition and another where the bullet was stuck in the throat when I unloaded to show clear. The unfired powder dropped into my hand. Since these failures occurred during a match my score was ruined. I no longer use the 325 PD!

 

[Badquaker]

My brand new 637 developed a hard to open condition. It was hanging up at the tip of the ejection rod/detent. A little buffing with some 1200 grit paper and the problem was gone.

 

[Pizza Bob]

Query, does your 986 use a Detent on the Yoke for the forward lock or does it feature the older style forward lock on the Ejector Rod. If your forward lock is the older style the problem you described is EXACTLY what happens when the Ejector Rod starts to unscrew from the Extractor Star. For a true Gunsmith that is about 45 seconds to fix. Because all you have to do is properly tighten the Ejector Rod. BTW, part of doing this properly is placing a full clip of fired cases into the cylinder.

^^^^^THIS^^^^^

 

[jcelect]

I have experienced severe bullet pull when shooting my 325 PD revolver in IDPA matches. My ammo is handloads using Starline brass and 230 gr. FMJ bullets with a moderate dose of VV-N310. My experience shooting S&W moonclip revos is that used brass eventually loses its' ability to hold adequate surface tension on the bullet and crimping isn't able to compensate for that on jacketed bullets. I also believe the extreme light weight of the gun makes the bullet pull worse.

I experienced a poofy load where the bullet was already out of the case pre-ignition and another where the bullet was stuck in the throat when I unloaded to show clear. The unfired powder dropped into my hand. Since these failures occurred during a match my score was ruined. I no longer use the 325 PD!

Hey Bob, welcome to my world! Some of us old farts that shoot nothing but revolvers and don't like the bottom feeding auto jamming plastic guns know what a "revolver roll crimp" is! If it goes in a revolver, roll crimp it! You say "there is no crimping groove on an auto bullets", then seat the bullet deeper and crimp on the ogive of the bullet!

I shoot a lot of moon clips; 9MM(two different clips), 38 Super, 40S&W(two different clips), 45ACP,10MM and don't have problems with bullet pull. I learned the hard way! A 240gr, 44 mag, 23grs H110, on the second round a bullet pulled on the right side of the frame. Try to get the cylinder open to dump the rounds? ! ? ! ?
jcelect

 

[NJM15]

Just got her back today

Query, does your 986 use a Detent on the Yoke for the forward lock or does it feature the older style forward lock on the Ejector Rod. If your forward lock is the older style the problem you described is EXACTLY what happens when the Ejector Rod starts to unscrew from the Extractor Star. For a true Gunsmith that is about 45 seconds to fix. Because all you have to do is properly tighten the Ejector Rod. BTW, part of doing this properly is placing a full clip of fired cases into the cylinder.

You guys are a wealth of information the ejector rod was loose, the smith took care of it and only charged me 5 bucks. Luckily didn't have to send it back to S&W. It must have been loose from the beginning it felt stiff to release when I first took it out of the case but I thought it might loosen up on break-in. ill continue to use my tightly crimped reloads
Thanks

 

[NJM15]

old farts and revolvers

Hey Bob, welcome to my world! Some of us old farts that shoot nothing but revolvers and don't like the bottom feeding auto jamming plastic guns know what a "revolver roll crimp" is! If it goes in a revolver, roll crimp it! You say "there is no crimping groove on an auto bullets", then seat the bullet deeper and crimp on the ogive of the bullet!

I shoot a lot of moon clips; 9MM(two different clips), 38 Super, 40S&W(two different clips), 45ACP,10MM and don't have problems with bullet pull. I learned the hard way! A 240gr, 44 mag, 23grs H110, on the second round a bullet pulled on the right side of the frame. Try to get the cylinder open to dump the rounds? ! ? ! ?
jcelect

I was a plastic shooter ,still do some time, but another O F at the range let me shoot his Uberti 45 cowboy and got me on the right path, now I have 6 wheel guns with one more on the way
I started with them in 1973 a Python and a Cobra

 

[forrestinmathews]

You guys are a wealth of information the ejector rod was loose, the smith took care of it and only charged me 5 bucks. Luckily didn't have to send it back to S&W. It must have been loose from the beginning it felt stiff to release when I first took it out of the case but I thought it might loosen up on break-in. ill continue to use my tightly crimped reloads
Thanks

I use blue loctite when I reassemble this part. Hopefully he did too. I just hate it when it backs out. So annoying.

 

[NJM15]

Happened again

Got my 986 on 8/23 fired about 100 rds through it
the cylinder release seemed harder to push than any of my other Smiths. Eventually at the range today I just about got it opened without any undo force, popped out the expelled brass and clip inserted a loaded clip now the cylinder wont lock into place. Took it into the store at the range where I bought it ,the girl looked at it and took a brand new 986 out of the case to compare, and found the pin that locks the forward end of the ejector shaft in place was worn at a bevel. I cleaned and lubed it after every use using mil 25 grease and Hoppes oil where needed. The gun is there waiting for the gunsmith to come in tomorrow to examine it and possibly a trip back to S&W.
Man what a bummer I really like this gun and gave it a commendable report on the forum

Took it back to the range put 7 clips through it, took it home to clean and had a stiff release again , this time the ejector rod flew out of the cylinder. put it back together using red lock tite
with a clip of fired brass in the cylinder. Will try again this weekend, cant understand this ,no problems whatsoever with my 17,25 and 27 this is supposed to be an upscale model

 

[forrestinmathews]

Blue loctite. Not Red. Those springs will eventually need to be replaced. Maybe you can undo this mistake before it's too late.

 

[Don.]

Took it back to the range put 7 clips through it, took it home to clean and had a stiff release again , this time the ejector rod flew out of the cylinder. put it back together using red lock tite
with a clip of fired brass in the cylinder. Will try again this weekend, cant understand this ,no problems whatsoever with my 17,25 and 27 this is supposed to be an upscale model

Sounds like the gunsmith owes you $5.