A strange .357 magnum

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The Doc

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Gentlemen,

I have come across this Combat Magnum .357 K frame revolver. I am from India and handguns in .357 magnum caliber here are rather uncommon and profoundly expensive. The .38 special revolver is relatively cheap and a lot of them get modified to fire a .357 magnum which is illegal and very dangerous.

This is a no model number revolver, the serial number (K262XXX) dates it to a Combat Magnum made in 1955 (so far so good), the confusion starts when one sees the full lug and the top strap checkering. A friend of mine is interested in buying this and he sent me these pictures.

A point to ponder would be the roll mark on the left side of the barrel; while on a model 586 barrel it says "S&W .357 MAGNUM", here on this revolver's barrel it says ".357 S&W MAGNUM" . A company variation or an after market error on part of the guy who tinkered with it ?

The worry now is .....

1. Is it a genuine .357 where the barrel has been replaced and checkering done?
2. Is it a .38 special of some sort modified to fire a .357 mag round ?

I have asked my friend to check the serial number behind the ejector star and see if that matches with the serial number on the bottom of the grip.

I know I am asking too many questions based on these pictures and I request you to bear with me.

cm1f.jpg

cm2s.jpg


Thank you.
 
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You've done your homework well. The serial number indeed indicates a 1955 K-frame, likely the Combat Magnum (pre-Model 19), and the barrel looks to be from a Model 586. Both are made for .357.

The top strap checkering might be aftermarket, though it's possible S&W was checkering their pre-19s and later stopped. I've only seen that kind of checkering on Model 27s, though.

Barrel lettering has variations over the years even within the same model line; could easily be a genuine S&W 586 barrel.

But the piece is certainly a Frankengun (made from parts of other guns) at best -- someone has taken at minimum a barrel from one model and put it on the frame of a different model. This can work, but I'd be concerned about origins, use, and quality of gunsmithing and would pass.

Is your friend intent upon a .357? If dubious .357 hack jobs are common in India, but a safe, trustworthy .38 is also common, I'd advise him to find a .38. Depending upon your friend's intended use, .357 is hardly necessary and in many common applications not even advised.
 
Unless the seller can prove the conversion was done by the factory, which I doubt, or a very well known gunsmith don't touch that revolver. There is no way to know if it's safe to shoot with any type of ammo.

P.s Doc welcome to the forum
 
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Welcome to the Forum.

First: I do NOT think that is a real Smith & Wesson barrel.

The caliber marking is on the RIGHT side of the barrel on S&W revolvers (looking at it from a shooting grip) and Smith & Wesson is on the LEFT side.

I wonder if the whole gun is a knockoff? Certainly nothing to prevent a gunsmith from falsifying a serial number.

I would be VERY cautious and at most shoot .38 special, and low-power rounds at that, such as wadcutter.

A lot of little things on that gun don't fit. The checkering, the screws on the sight leaf are in the wrong places. The rear sight blade itself looks odd (can you take a pic of the gun from a shooter's perspective?)

All in all, be VERY VERY CAUTIOUS.

Second: Can you describe what guns and owning guns is like in India? I was not aware of common ownership there.

Thank you!
 
Sorry to keep at it, but the checkering on the hammer spur is too coarse and the the screw sizes on the sight leaf are also wrong.

ETA: And there should NOT be an S&W company mark on the left sideplate under the thumbpiece.

See my Combat Magnum for comparison sake.

IMG_20130426_185727_403_zps4cc673ba.jpg
 
Here is a close-up picture of the top strap on the Bill Jordan combat magnum. There is
no checkering on the top strap of the frame.

mikepriwer-albums-mlp7-picture9374-20130426-173722.jpg


The caliber roll marking on the right side of the barrel is

S. & W. .357 MAGNUM

Regards, Mike Priwer
 
There are so many things wrong with the pictured revolver that it is hard to know where to begin. The hammer, barrel, frame, top strap, rear sight leaf are just some of the things that come to mind.

The barrel could almost pass for a current 586 barrel from the way the front sight and barrel markings look.

The hammer checkering is not right.

The rear sight leaf looks smooth, and the screws do not look right.

It looks like the hammer stud is visible under the thumb piece, and that causes me all sorts of concerns. Everything from forgery made up from very old frame to serious frame damage requiring hammer stud replacement.

The whole thing looks like a mish-mash of parts thrown together.

Stay away from it. Very far away.
 
Handmade AKs and various handguns are out there... soft metals, etc. risky to say the least.
 
phatmax said:
Handmade AKs and various handguns are out there... soft metals, etc. risky to say the least.
Click to expand...


We have a winner!!!!!!! More so considering how close to Pakistan the gun is. 'Kyber Pass Guns' would fit that bill though SOME are so well made as to be the same quality as originals.
 
I've seen several Khyber Pass firearms in person, and a friend has lots of photos of the various "gunmakers" in action.

Truly, it's pretty amazing what some metalsmiths can do with chisels, a couple of hammers and a small charcoal fire, all while squatting with crossed legs on a dusty rug. But I don't recall seeing.....nor does my friend recall....any metallurgical checking instruments.

I'd follow the advise given above: admire the workmanship....for what it its.....and back away......
 
Take the firing pin or internals and mount that on the wall, that is not a genuine S&W .357.
 
Thanks for the link, Doc. The author is articulate and his writing is enlightening.

I think your friend is making the right choice by turning down the deal on the revolver. It would be interesting to see clear, close-up photos of the gun. I have never seen an imitation S&W prior to this one.
 
WaMike said:
I've seen several Khyber Pass firearms in person, and a friend has lots of photos of the various "gunmakers" in action.

Truly, it's pretty amazing what some metalsmiths can do with chisels, a couple of hammers and a small charcoal fire, all while squatting with crossed legs on a dusty rug. But I don't recall seeing.....nor does my friend recall....any metallurgical checking instruments.

I'd follow the advise given above: admire the workmanship....for what it its.....and back away......
Click to expand...

Several years ago, a dear friend of mine proudly showed me his newly acquired, genuine C-96 Broomhandle. I took one look at it and told him that unfortunately, he had purchase a fake gun, probably a Khyber Pass made gun, but no real way of knowing. He was outraged at my judgement and pointed out all of the details and features of the pistol - so how could I possibly say his gun was a fake? Easy, prominently stamped on the barrel was the brand name: "Wauser". Game, set, and match to Double-O-Dave. I don't think my friend ever forgave me for this - at least he never showed me any new guns he bought after this incident.

Regards,

Dave
 
Wauser? That's funny.

Yup, one of the Khyber Pass guns I saw was a Broomhandle, complete with "authentic" holster stock.....which was fastened onto the pistol grip with what looked like a small auto door latch.

Another was a "Luger," as well as some working AK-47s, which are, I understand, the most popular.
 
Another "ding" would be the barrel. An "L" frame barrel will not fit into a "K" frame without modification to the barrel shank diameter and then re-threading it.
 
Those photographs make me feel sorry for the gun, itself. It'll never be what it's supposed to be.
 
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