BMCM looks like we are gonna need springs

SW CQB 45 said:
Howdy Fastbolt, BMCM and 18DAI

I am very late to this game and somewhat out of touch.

I ran into a very similar problem with my Colt Officers ACP and a 1988 modified slide Kings Gun Works full length guide rod and barrel bushing.

that full length guide rod was designed for the dual spring set up. My go to spring place... Wolff does not make a spring compatible with the Kings. So I called ISMI who said to try there Officers flat wire and its sold at EGW.

the ISMI rep said those springs were rated to 15K.

anyway... when buying a few from EGW.... I recall seeing a 3" spring. Not sure if it will work. I mentioned to the ISMI rep that my Kings guide rod was .260" in diameter. He said the Officers spring ID is .263" and said would work.

I thought I would throw this out there.... hope it helps. If not, tell me to get back to the 1911 pages HA!

3" Flat Wire Recoil Spring ISMI 16 lb
Click to expand...

Hey! Howdy! Haven't heard from you in a while. Lots of things have happened, huh? They sure have with me.

Thanks for posting the info about the KGW modified Colt Officers. Mine has been modified with the same kit, and it's been on my list of things to get around to addressing. (The damned list keeps getting longer the longer I'm retired, which doesn't seem intuitive. ;) )


Anyway, my guide rod is also 0.260", but when I called IMSI I was told my rod couldn't be larger than 0.25" or their spring wouldn't work?? BMCM has graciously offered to turn my guide rod down whenever I can send it to him, but it would be great if it didn't need to be done. I like the info better that you got from the IMSI rep with whom you spoke. :) (Better than what I was told over the phone.)

You already try the IMSI spring to confirm it fits easily over the King's rod? You don't need to use the old buff King's provided as part of their kit?

That would be great. A buddy also has a tuned Officers with the King's kit, and we've both run out of the spare nested springs King's used to sell. The last bunch I ordered from them before they closed shop were 22lbs sets. They said they made 20lb & 22lb sets for the OM kits.
 
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Hi SW CQB 45! :) Good to see you here!

Thanks for the info! Hopefully we will find a solution to this spring issue. Good thing we have the s&w "lifetime warranty". ;)

Hey, since the last time we spoke, I think I bought your old 4566 45CQB from Grinder. Great pistol! Do you still have your two tone 45CQB? Please come around here more often! You are missed! Best regards, 18DAI
 
Fastbolt

I got my ISMI springs last night and it slides perfectly over my .260" kings guide rod and recoil spring reverse plug.

I have not shot this guy in a long time and currently the frame is being front strap checkered. Not sure when I will get it back.

I used to run WC shok buffs in it and it worked. This is the part I ordered and I might have mentioned it above, the ISMI guy told me rated for 15K. Not sure about that but I have a couple of spare just in case. I want to make sure it runs first.

Officer's Flat Wire Recoil Spring ISMI 22 lb

18DAI

I unfortunately got out of SW 3rd Gen because I got scared when parts went out of production. My 4566CQB was sold around 2009. I will PM you my serial number to verify.

my only SW besides revolvers is a Shield 9mm that the serial number is keeping me for getting rid of plus its a good piece after I installed the Apex Duty kit.

My smoothest piece was the DPA5906. Accurate and smooth trigger press.
I hardly shot the 4566CQB because I drove the 4563CQB hard.
845 and 945 were absolute joys to shoot.
Shorty45 was a nice shooter too.
I had a 4506-1 and 4516-2 that were tuned by the PC and were very nice.
and I think lastly was a 4013TSW & 3953TSW that out of the box were sweet.

All gone.

Every now and then I see a deal on a 3rd Gen, but I "walk" away. I have also thin my herd considerably just to what I shoot, carry or sentimental value.

I am 31 years in and its not getting easier. In my mind, I am ready to retire but in reality it not going to happen any time soon but never say never... HA!
 
SW 45 CQB I retired from Investigations in 2014 after 20 years. Now a Criminal Magistrate 4 nights/week and Firearms Instructor at the local indoor range. THAT is the best job I ever had! :)

I am carrying CS45 most of the time, CS9 when its hot/humid.....or I'm lazy. Hence the desire to find a CS45 replacement recoil spring. I'm down to one new factory spring left.

I kept all my 3rd gen 45s. But I did thin the herd back in 2015/16. Got rid of anything I had not shot in awhile and all the target pistols. All the rifles too. Kept the pistol grip shotty and 9mm sub gun.

I did pick up a couple of 3rd gen shooters over the last 6 months. For teaching mostly. To keep wear and tear off my carry guns. How you liking the 1911 world? Regards 18DAI
 
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18DAI said:
How you liking the 1911 world? Regards 18DAI
Click to expand...

Its my preferred platform. Why.... I like the history and its quirkiness.

I sold quite a few pieces to get my 30 year gift to myself.

It took 7 months to get it (after ordering it), it is fitted tight and I will do my best to push it to its limits.

3Kb166Ih.jpg
 
Beautiful 1911! Sure beats a Gold watch. Congrats on achieving 30 years! Stay safe! Regards 18DAI
 
Good question. I never got a satisfactory answer when I asked. Mostly just a "I don't know" whenever I asked. ;)

If I had to guess, I'd not be surprised if someone mixed up the language used for the nested Inside/Outside springs of the 457/4013TSW/4040PD models. I was told they'd transferred the 3rd gen Parts info to different new computer systems a couple of times (according to a couple of the LE parts contacts I used to call). You know how things can get mixed up when that happens, especially if someone not really familiar with the guns was just doing data entry.

If you think that everyone at the gun company is automatically familiar with all of their guns? Well, I can think of a couple of instructors who had taught the 3rd gen armorer classes who told me they'd never even worked on the Chiefs Special models, or looked inside them to see how they were different.

That's probably how the picture of the mag catch assembly for the CS (and "value line") guns ended up with the mag spring reversed for so long. Apparently, nobody familiar with the models caught the error when editing the manuals, and inserting that single pic. I was later told by the guy who had been put in charge of re-writing the manuals that he was aware of the reversed image, and had it on his list of things-to-do (which probably never happened because the 3rd gens were discontinued a while later).

Just my thoughts. I've been wrong before, and I'm prepared to be wrong again. :)
 
I've gotten a bit lost in the cross-chatter here. Has anyone found a third-party source of recoil springs that will work in the CS45 yet?
 
Plans for the test fixture coming to fruition...

Got a smokin deal on a load cell with a display instrument, even had a full battery in it. Donut load cell on the way and the DRO is in the mail stream.

A bit of fabrication will be necessary then once I have everything mounted and configured on a slab of aluminum tooling plate...
I shall be able to obtain precise recoil spring force values for virtually any handgun with springs compressed to installed length and at breech fully open length.

Cheers
Bill
 
Thank you Master Chief! For ALL your efforts on our behalf! Much appreciated. Regards 18DAI
 
Obvious signs the envelope was jammed in the sorting machinery a few times along the way requiring manual intervention. Spring was poking out through a tear in the middle.

Best to ship this kind of lumpy stuff in a box or thick padded envelope.

In any event, it finally made it's way here ...Thanks for steeping up. I have most everything needed to build the test fixture. A few bits yet on order from McMaster and need to get the pin-out for wiring the load cell to a D-sub9 connector.

Cheers
Bill
 
SW CQB 45 said:
Fastbolt

I got my ISMI springs last night and it slides perfectly over my .260" kings guide rod and recoil spring reverse plug.

I have not shot this guy in a long time and currently the frame is being front strap checkered. Not sure when I will get it back....
Click to expand...

Interesting - and annoying - aspect of using the ISMI 22lb spring in the King's bushing, rod and reverse plug setup Officers.

The King's 2.927" OA length rod won't tip and find the plug hole, and the King's rod doesn't have a "wire" takedown hole drilled in it. So, I have to push the reverse plug back far enough to grasp it, and hold it retracted enough for the front of the plug to clear the rear of the spring tunnel, and then lever up the rear of the rod. All while holding the plug back on the rod and the 22lb spring compressed.

Reverse order to install. :eek:

I called Clark's and they said their kit won't fit on Officers Models modified to use the defunct King's kit (different length plug, and apparently the alignment notch on the plug, which the King's plug doesn't have/use). I'm waiting to hear if they're willing to grind a rod to 2.93" OA length and drill it for the takedown wire (paperclip).

Otherwise, I may have to send the rod to BMCM and have him drill a hole in it. My fixture on the drill press doesn't hold something that small, and I don't want to risk buggering it up.

Sigh. At least I got the neat new Brownells plunger tube staking fixture, to tighten the staking on one end of the old gun's tube. I wish they'd had that inexpensive tool many years ago. I disliked the old ways of staking the tubes. :)
 
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Well, Clark's said they can cut down a Commander rod to the right length, but the takedown hole for the wire won't be in the right place. (Of course.) Didn't sound like they were willing to drill a new hole for the shorter Officer's length rod.

So, once I get tired of compressing the longer 22lb flat-wire spring on the rod, and holding the reverse plug back far enough to let me slip the front and rear of the rod into place, and then control/release the plug to go forward into the spring tunnel ... I'll probably give you call, BMCM, and arrange for you to drill a takedown hole in the King's Officer's rods for my friend and I. :)

Meanwhile, I've got to use that slick new Brownells tool to tighten the front staking of the plunger tube (or replace it, depending what I find), and I'm waiting for one style of the newer Wilson's Officer's/Compact 7rd mag to arrive (compared to the old design I have from many years ago). I've already received one of the Ed Brown Officer's mags, and a couple of the 7rd Tripp Research Officers mags, to test out in that Officer's.

Once everything proves shipshape on the live-fire range, I'll resurrect that stainless Officer's to serve as a retirement CCW. It has some personally meaning to me, as it came from my father, and the custom work was done by my former instructor/armorer mentor (back before I became a Colt armorer). Both men are now passed. My former instructor/armorer mentor built some very nice PPC revolvers (S&W K's & Colt Python) and 1911's.

Now, we return your channel back to the CS45 recoil spring topic ... :)
 
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Fastbolt said:
Well, Clark's said they can cut down a Commander rod to the right length, but the takedown hole for the wire won't be in the right place. (Of course.) Didn't sound like they were willing to drill a new hole for the shorter Officer's length rod.

So, once I get tired of compressing the longer 22lb flat-wire spring on the rod, and holding the reverse plug back far enough to let me slip the front and rear of the rod into place, and then control/release the plug to go forward into the spring tunnel ... I'll probably give you call, BMCM, and arrange for you to drill a takedown hole in the King's Officer's rods for my friend and I. :)

Meanwhile, I've got to use that slick new Brownells tool to tighten the front staking of the plunger tube (or replace it, depending what I find), and I'm waiting for one style of the newer Wilson's Officer's/Compact 7rd mag to arrive (compared to the old design I have from many years ago). I've already received one of the Ed Brown Officer's mags, and a couple of the 7rd Tripp Research Officers mags, to test out in that Officer's.

Once everything proves shipshape on the live-fire range, I'll resurrect that stainless Officer's to serve as a retirement CCW. It has some personally meaning to me, as it came from my father, and the custom work was done by my former instructor/armorer mentor (back before I became a Colt armorer). Both men are now passed. My former instructor/armorer mentor built some very nice PPC revolvers (S&W K's & Colt Python) and 1911's.

Now, we return your channel back to the CS45 recoil spring topic ... :)
Click to expand...

At your service my friend... 5C collet blocks and center finder standing by.

I'm told another one of those King's rod is on the way here from another of our members for modification as well.

1/16" or 0.0625 hole across 3 to 9 o'clock about 0.750 back from the front, chamfer applied both left & right.

Cheers
Bill
 
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