Can you shoot .357 out of a .38 special only J frame?

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Just curious why you would want to shoot .357 out of a J-frame. I realize a lot of people do in their .357 J-frames but damn, regular .38's are a handful to me in a Model 36 with a Tyler on the magnas. I put a different set of grips on it to get all three fingers on. I don't even want to shoot +P in mine even though I am sure I could with the grip that is on it now. 357? Fugeddaboutit!
 
I can't contradict any of the naysayers, but suggest if it feels good---do it. As an aside, I too would appreciate being able to see it on YouTube.

Finally, you may wish to get a note from your psychiatrist (for your beneficiaries) stating you are of sound mind, and not suicidal (in the event your life insurance has a suicide clause). I don't know that such a note would help in the event of a contested claim, but it can't hurt.

Ralph Tremaine
 
They certainly aren't a fun gun....

Just curious why you would want to shoot .357 out of a J-frame. I realize a lot of people do in their .357 J-frames but damn, regular .38's are a handful to me in a Model 36 with a Tyler on the magnas. I put a different set of grips on it to get all three fingers on. I don't even want to shoot +P in mine even though I am sure I could with the grip that is on it now. 357? Fugeddaboutit!

My alloy J frame starts to hurt when I load into the plus P range. With full loads a few shots are all I'm good for.
 
Not quite the same...

See the post above yours.

The cylinder question IS the concern I would have. However if a .38 special cylinder can have a 9mm conversion done safely...

I believe, but I'm not 100% sure, that converted guns are all steel, not alloy. Also, unless the barrel is converted also, the bullet fits loosely and and doesn't build up full pressure.

I've shot 9mm bullets on .38 special cases with light loads. It was a novelty, and kind of fun, but I have no real need to do that unless I'm looking for 'gallery' loads.

Also, revolvers have cylinder gap that lowers the pressure.
 
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So what was the .38/44? Plus couldn't you just take the percentage of powder away to compensate for the shorter cartridge to equal out to the same pressure?
The 38/44 was a steel N-frame revolver. The pocket pistol you want to play with is not steel, is not N-frame, and may not be a revolver for long.

How could you take away the correct amount of powder to equal out to (what?) same pressure? You don't know what pressure you're trying to duplicate, you don't know what pressure your temporary revolver is designed for, and when you actually load some cartridges, you won't know what pressure they will produce. Other than that, you're all set to go.

I hope, for your sake, that you don't actually reload.
 
Are there any.....

Just curious why you would want to shoot .357 out of a J-frame. I realize a lot of people do in their .357 J-frames but damn, regular .38's are a handful to me in a Model 36 with a Tyler on the magnas. I put a different set of grips on it to get all three fingers on. I don't even want to shoot +P in mine even though I am sure I could with the grip that is on it now. 357? Fugeddaboutit!

Are there any ALLOY .357s in J frame? It sounds really awful. Like I said, I have an all steel .38 that hurts with +P loads.

One more thing. Even if the gun does not literally blow apart, it ain't gonna last long with that kind of treatment. All steel K frame model 19s couldn't take continuous .357s.
 
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Are there any ALLOY .357s in J frame? It sounds really awful. Like I said, I have an all steel .38 that hurts with +P loads.

One more thing. Even if the gun does not literally blow apart, it ain't gonna last long with that kind of treatment. All steel K frame model 19s couldn't take continuous .357s.

The 360PD has a scandium alloy frame . . .
 
I would suggest this....Underwood 38 Special +P 158 Grain Hard Cast Keith, i fired this out of a Ruger SP101 .357 and it had more Stomp than some .357's i have fired.......
 
I'll preface this post by saying that I'm not suggesting that anyone do what I have done, I am only telling you about my experiences. What any of you do is strictly up to you.


Now, a waaaayyy back in 2008 when I bought my 360J specifically to use it for a 9mm conversion project I called S&W to get some info just be sure that I wasn't having a grenade built. At that time I was told that the 360J frame is the same one that is used in the M&P 360 .357 magnum. I also specifically asked about the cylinders and if there was any difference in the metallurgy or heat treating of the .38 special cylinders compared to the .357 magnum cylinders and was told that the only difference between them was the depth that the chambers were cut.

Given that information and knowing that SAAMI max pressure for the .357mag is 35k PSI and having read numerous accounts of successful 9mm (35K PSI max) conversions that had been done using 940 cyls in early 642s, as well as knowing of several 940s that had been reamed to 9x23 to use .38 Super (36.5K PSI max), and having owned a PC940 356TSW (48K PSI in the same cyl as the 940 except for chamber dimensions), and subsequent info I got from the gunsmith, I went forward with my conversion plans.

When speaking to Mark Hartshorne of Pinnacle High Performance prior to having him do the work on my gun, he pointed out that, unlike the solid 4"-6" test barrels, snubbies not only bleed off pressure from the barrel/cylinder gap but that their shorter 1 7/8"-2" barrels don't allow for full pressure build up (which is why bullets are slower out of shorter barrels).

So, now that all of that background info is out of the way, I will tell you that I have shot 9mm, 9mm +P, 9mm +P+, .38 Super, 9mm Largo, and 9x23 Winchester through my 360J over the last 8 years with no ill effects. In fact, I had the gun back to Mark last year to have a titanium .38spl cylinder fitted to it and he went through it thoroughly and the gun is in fine shape. Now, in the interest of full disclosure, it's been far more regular pressure 9mm than the others, say 85%, followed by 9mm +P+ and .38 Super 10%, then 9mm +P and 9mm Largo 5%, and just a couple of cylinders of 9x23 Winchester because the recoil is incredibly brutal out of a 13oz gun.


All of that being said, I personally would not try to load .38spl cases to .357mag pressures, you're just inviting catastrophic case failure. Because, while the gun may be built to handle .357mag pressures, .38spl cases are not made to withstand them.
If I wanted to shoot .357mags out of my 360J I would either get a .357mag cylinder for my gun or have my existing cylinder reamed to .357mag dimensions and use .357mag ammo/cases.



Finally, before anyone gets all up in arms about changing calibers, cylinders, etc., you need to keep in mind that S&W and other gun companies standardize many components in the interest of saving money. It's cheaper in the long run to have one frame built to use in many guns that is built to the strength necessary for the most powerful chambering compared to building multiple versions of exactly the same frame that are tested to different strengths - weaker frames for weaker cartridges. The same goes for cylinders, less expensive to have all of your cylinder blanks made and heat treated to a certain strength then cut the chambers as needed than make a bunch of stronger or weaker cyls. It may have been different 60, 70, 80+ years ago but this is how it is now.

In addition, there is a long history of rechambering revolvers or converting them by changing cylinders and barrels. In the '60s, '70s, and into the '80s, N frame revolvers in some calibers, like .44mag,, were extremely hard to come by. It was quite common for gunsmiths to convert guns like the M28 Highway Patrolman, which were plentiful and inexpensive, to more desireable calibers by changing out cyls and barrels or rechambering and reboring them. It was a matter of making do with what you had vs what was available and the desired outcome vs cost effectiveness. Obviously, this practice continues today with gunsmiths like Mark Hartshorne, Hamilton Bowen, David Clements, and others offering interesting and unique caliber conversions. In fact, just the other day I shipped an M28-2 to Mark along with a titanium .41mag cylinder and a 4" M58 barrel, when he returns it to me I'll have a slick and useful midweight 3" round butt .41mag revolver in place of the beater .357mag he's starting with.
 
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Can anyone show information on this?

.38 Special brass isn't as strong as .357 Magnum brass

.38 Special J frame carbon steel cylinder is weaker than .357 Magnum J frame carbon steel cylinder

These see to be the two main claims that are popping up as to why it would result in failure.

No, but if you have evidence to the contrary, I think the group would be interested.
 
WC145

WC145, Thanks for the info, i picked up a Titanium 357 cylinder for my 360J not really for shooting 357's but weight reduction.
 
Just curious, are the 38 special cylinders in the 360j the same length as the 357 cylinders - so it would be a direct swap (without having to cut the barrel back & re-cut the forcing cone)?

I ask because obviously doing a cylinder swap for one that was made for 357's would be a completely different kettle of fish. If you could direct swap them, then it might be worthwhile.

Though obviously more expensive than just buying one chambered for 357 in the first place...
 
You asked a question, and you're not getting the answer you wanted, so you don't seem willing to accept it.

Tell you what, you don't like the answer you're getting here, then ask Smith & Wesson. Better yet, get a 38 special cylinder and a 357 cylinder and have them subjected to destructive testing and analyzed.

Or do your own redneck destructive testing - ruin your 360j by having the cylinder reamed to chamber 357s, and start shooting 357 rounds in it - and see how long it lasts.

Then come back here and tell us we're all wrong. Assuming you still have fingers to type with and both eyes to see the computer screen... :rolleyes:

I asked a question in hopes of answers, not opinions and criticization as to why you think it isn't a good idea.
 
WC145, Thanks for the info, i picked up a Titanium 357 cylinder for my 360J not really for shooting 357's but weight reduction.
To give you an idea of what to expect for a weight difference, my gun weighs 10.7oz without grips and the titanium .38spl cylinder in it (also the hammer has been bobbed). With the original steel cyl, which has been reamed to 9x23 and cut for moonclips, it weighs 12.6oz without grips. That's about 10%, it doesn't sound like much on 'paper' but in your hand, a pocket, or an ankle holster it is definitely noticeable.

As an aside, I never asked anyone at S&W but I believe that the published weights for the scandium framed snubbies were for the guns without grips, because they came with several different grips over the years but the published weights never changed and it's easy to pick up an ounce or more going from a rubber boot grip to a longer rubber 'combat' grip.

I've had a set of Crimson Trace LG-105 laser grips on my gun since I started carrying it and they add 1.4oz to it, so it's 12.1oz with the titanium .38spl cylinder and CT LG-105 grips. Add five 129gr Federal Hydra-shok +Ps and it weighs 14.4oz.


Just curious, are the 38 special cylinders in the 360j the same length as the 357 cylinders - so it would be a direct swap (without having to cut the barrel back & re-cut the forcing cone)?

I ask because obviously doing a cylinder swap for one that was made for 357's would be a completely different kettle of fish. If you could direct swap them, then it might be worthwhile.

Though obviously more expensive than just buying one chambered for 357 in the first place...
Yes. All of the J magnum frame cylinders are the same length.

Yeah, caliber conversions always have to be weighed against the cost of just buying a gun already chambered in the caliber you want. That's why they're usually done in calibers that weren't available in the frame size and barrel length you want or done on a gun that you either got cheap or have had around long enough that any added cost is a moot point.
 
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