CCW: Keep one in the pipe?

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...all you guys are gonna do what you think is right...but let me tell you a little story. I know a guy who took the magazine out of a .380 and then proceeded to blow a neat hole in an expensive Oriental rug and the hardwood floor beneath.

Later he blew the toe off of his right boot (expensive sharkskins) with a Single Action Army. You would think these two accidents would have cured him...but it got worse.

The next one occured when he took a shot with an "unloaded .32-20 revolver" at a mirror in his house...blew holes through three walls and had a real serious fight with his wife.

The last one this unfortunate fellow had was with a cocked and locked 1911...that round went off in his pick-up going under the dash...he found out that winter when he turned on the heater exactly where it went.

You guys must be saying by now "man...this idiot should have never gotten anywhere near a gun"...well this "idiot" was Skeeter Skelton...if you don't believe me ...turn to page 306 in his book "Good Friends, Good Guns, Good Whiskey" and read for yourself.

Skeeter was man enough to admit what he did and what can happen...I have had two ADs myself...one with a Walker Colt replica and one while I was unloading an old Ithaca 37 12 gauge. Both times I was following basic safe firearms practice and the round went in a safe direction.

I carry my 1991a1 with an empty chamber...and go to condition one when I feel the situation warrants...which has been once in twenty years. I dont go looking for trouble...and I live in an area where there is very little crime (because there are very few people) but I do pass through some rough areas while traveling.

Good luck to you all...but if you're gonna call me an idiot...you're gonna hafta call Skeeter one too.

Oh...and when that first AD happens to you...me and Skeeter told you so...

That's most worthless excuse I ever heard. :rolleyes:

There's no such thing as an AD and if you keep your stinkin finger off the trigger, you won't have such problems.

No excuse in the world will substitute proper, basic gun handling skills.

People that don't carry with one in the chamber can't blame their decision on the gun. They can only blame what they don't have between the ears.

Come on folks! I ain't that freakin hard! If your going to do something, DO IT RIGHT!
 
If I may chime in..

I thought carrying a 1911 in condition one was dangerous.

My lack of knowledge was the culprit.

A woman gives a most excellent explanation how safe it really is.

Please watch this if you are not familiar with the 1911.

Conditions of Readiness for the 1911 - YouTube

I carry my SR9C loaded and safety on.

When I carry my 686, every chamber is loaded.
 
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IMHO, a defensive draw with a firearm should be able to be performed quickly and efficiently with one hand, as well as require as few "steps" as possible. Not only does carrying with an empty chamber require more steps to bring the firearm into action, but it also requires two hands or an awkward operation (against a belt, teeth, etc.) to charge. Risky at best.

I primarily carry a 1911 or a double-action handgun, and I always carry with a round "in the pipe" and with the safety on if it is a single-action. Of course, in the case of a DA revolver, there is always a round in the chamber:D
 
There are times when it is appropriate to carry "empty chamber."

Anyone that insists on one method and one method only of carrying is stuck inside the box.

Times when it's appropriate to carry "empty chamber" do not include when carrying for self defense.

And yes, I insist that's the only method you can use. If you don't, I'm going to get back in my box and hold my breath until you do.:D
 
I can safely say there is no way in heck my Ruger LC9 is going to misfire. Maybe if it were dropped off of a building and landed just right -- the safety (which I use) plus long, fairly hard trigger pull, make it pretty darned safe. It's hammer-fired, and the hammer is recessed. Then there are things like the pop-up round indicator.

I don't care for the trigger myself, but there's no worry whatsoever of a ND.

If you are somebody paranoid of carrying with a round in the chamber, but still want to, I cannot recommend the LC9 enough. It's not a range gun, but it will do the job within 7 yards easily. That's all I care about.
 
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...the last two paragraphs of Skeeter Skelton's
article...

I believe that if you handle firearms long
enough, one will eventually go off without your
intending it to do so. I've seen this happen on
target ranges, on hunting trips, inside cars and
inside bars. I even heard of one cop in a West
Texas town who dropped his derringer on a hard
courtroom floor and accidentally shot the
presiding judge in the leg.

Luck has ridden with me...luck and that early
training of my dad which gave me a mental
block against pointing a gun at anything or
anybody I didn't want to shoot. And it has
been my good fortune never to have accidentally
harmed anyone with a firearm.

Make sure you don't either.

...and from today's news...

Click Here
 
He's just an idiot. 1) A gun needs to be in a proper holster with retention. This is why i think pocket carry is a bad idea. 2) when you pick up a gun or handle one DO NOT grab it by the trigger! Another bad idea. 3) if you want to carry old guns that were iffy designed even for their time (Steyr Hahn, Nambu, and a lot of other turn of the century guns) dont be surprised if you shoot yourself or others. Just because it was made doesnt mean it was a good idea.


Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk 2
 
I believe the late Jeff Cooper once said "“Safety is something that happens between your ears, not something you hold in your hands.”
 
How about some more;

"Unless you are one of the unfortunates who is forced to wear a decorative pistol with an unloaded magazine, there are three possible conditions in which to carry your 1911.

Condition Three. Chamber empty, hammer down. This requires you to manually cycle the slide before firing. To return the gun to its carry position after firing, you have to drop the magazine, empty the chamber, drop the hammer, reload and reinsert the magazine, all without shooting an innocent bystander. Condition Three is the slowest-into-action of any method of carrying a 1911 and, as such, is a dangerous concession to those whose nervous systems are conditioned to revolvers whose hammers are always at rest when not in use and which are not equipped with the operator-controlled safety systems of the 1911.

Condition Two. Chamber loaded, hammer down. This requires you to cock the hammer with your thumb before firing. It also requires you to very carefully pull the trigger and lower the hammer over a loaded chamber before returning the gun to its holster. The technique for manipulating a Condition Two carry is best practiced out in the country in a freshly plowed field, where the bullets will not ricochet off the pavement or the occasional rock every time you re-holster your gun.

Condition One. Cocked and locked. Chamber loaded, hammer cocked, thumb safety on. This requires you to snick the safety down before firing and snick it back up when you’re finished. Simple. And as safe as any mechanical safety can possibly make a gun, which is to say as safe as is consistent with practical readiness. Condition One is the fastest way to get your 1911 into action, the least prone to mistakes, and therefore the only way to go."

Jeff Cooper
 
...let's talk risk reward...

...for being in the "highest state of practical readiness" ...the gentleman in the Sparks movie theatre now probably faces...

...thousands in medical bills...hopefully he has insurance that will cover it...

...a probable lawsuit by the theatre chain...especially if he carried past a "No CCW Allowed" sign...(yes a private property owner has the right to disallow CCW)...

...Individual lawsuits from everyone in the theatre for endangering their lives...

...loss of his CCW at least temporarily...I'm guessing permanently...

...if he is charged and convicted of a crime with a possible sentence of over one year...he loses his right to keep and bear arms permanently...

...all because he had to be in the "highest state of practical readiness"...
 
I'm sorry, but did you find out what kind of handgun the guy was carrying? Semi auto, revolver, cap and ball? and yes, he probably faces all those things you describe. Our actions always come with consequences, good or bad.

So far, nothing youve said or cited changes the truth. A 1911 style pistol should be carried cocked and locked.
 
Right. The ND that injured the carrier in Sparks is because he is a dullard. He deserved what happened and all the consequences (although a civil suit from the theater is a really low risk). He needs a severe beating with his clown shoes.

I carry a pistol in my pocket almost every day, but in a holster designed for that purpose. I carried a 1911 as a duty and off duty pistol for several years. No problems occurred. The ONLY ND I ever had was on a range in a controlled environment trying a technique that sucked for me; because of the setting it did not create a safety hazard, and it was still my fault. That was well over 20 years ago, and I still remember how stupid it was.

If you are not ready for a fight when you put that gun on, put it back in the safe and do without. There may be a time and a place to carry a sidearm without one in the chamber and a full magazine (or cylinder), but those will be rare times at the most. I cannot think of any time in my life it would have been appropriate.
 
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BTW, MY 1911 hasn't gone off without me wanting it to in 30+ years. How do you explain that? Luck? or possibly discipline, training and practise?
 
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BTW, MY 1911 hasn't gone off without me wanting it to in 40+ years. How do you explain that? Luck? or possibly discipline, training and practise?

mine has been well behaved too. Thats beside the point in the Sparks case. We don't know what his gun was
 
mine has been well behaved too. Thats beside the point in the Sparks case. We don't know what his gun was

Agreed. Using that as an example for not carrying cocked and locked was a bit of a reach. The only way I can come up with to make a 1911 fire when dropped is to carry it with a round in the chamber, hammer down.
 
Agreed. Using that as an example for not carrying cocked and locked was a bit of a reach. The only way I can come up with to make a 1911 fire when dropped is to carry it with a round in the chamber, hammer down.

thats certainly one way. "but" we are already running in to story changes ... early reports say he dropped it, later reports are that he sat on it which brings inadvertent trigger manipulation ala glock into play. Im thinking it was some flavor of 380 though. claims that he transported himself to an ER thereafter have remained unchanged.

if it weren't for the lousy timing .. it might be kinda funny
 
BTW, MY 1911 hasn't gone off without me wanting it to in 40+ years. How do you explain that? Luck? or possibly discipline, training and practise?

Well, Jim, that's a bit longer than I carried mine, but I would have to agree with you and the gist of what Jeff Cooper said - cocked and locked is the safest and most effective way to carry a 1911 if you want to have any chance of coming out of a gunfight alive. I just don't understand how people can think they will necessarily have time, or even a second hand to cycle the slide. The only reason to draw a firearm on someone is if you are in imminent danger of being killed. I've been in a life and death encounter only once, and it made me realize a couple things. One is that some people will try to take your life even if you give them no reason at all to. Secondly, in that situation, milliseconds can make all the difference. People need to learn how to use their weapons if they are going to carry, learn and pay attention to safety rules, and they need to carry a round in the chamber. To me, to do otherwise shows a lack of understanding of the realities of the situation.
 
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