Confused: Are S&W revolver barrels supposed to be canted?

[M29since14]

I am not a trained physicist and will not publicly claim to know much about anything, but I believe there is some truth in what the CS tech told you. I also believe many of our revolver armchair experts could save themselves much frustration and annoyance if they would just get rid of their junky S&Ws and build their own revolvers from scratch. That way they can have the "fun" and acquire the firsthand experience of learning a tiny fraction of what S&W already knows about revolvers - and has known for at least the last 100-years or so.

But that is not the point. If you get your revolver back and it does not shoot to point of aim, I would send it back (with a target and description of the ammunition used) and ask for help. I would NOT mention anything about canted sights, the internet, or how you think they should fix it. JMHO. Good luck!

 

[turbo38gn]

A 66-2 is 30 years old.

I swear..... some people don't read... they just have an agenda....

Hey on a side note.... go Pats!!! Revis who!!!

 

[foytfoyt]

It's a common problem, and would bother me, however it may not be a functional problem.

I would suggest having several experienced shooters fire groups, to double check the point of impact. (Edit: I see now that you did post your own tight groups.)

I recall seeing a Performance Center video which shows the angle being set by eye. It's not a trivial problem to tighten something to within both a torque spec, and an angle spec, as they tend to conflict. Also the large friction at high torque means you get stick and slip, which makes fine adjustments difficult or impossible.

+/-5 degrees sounds terrible to me, but I understand why.

 

[diyj98]

I also believe many of our revolver armchair experts could save themselves much frustration and annoyance if they would just get rid of their junky S&Ws and build their own revolvers from scratch. That way they can have the "fun" and acquire the firsthand experience of learning a tiny fraction of what S&W already knows about revolvers - and has known for at least the last 100-years or so.

Very true. We all know S&W has never had any quality control problems over the 100 year history........... Wait, maybe there has been a "few" issues.

 

[turbo38gn]

Very true. We all know S&W has never had any quality control problems over the 100 year history........... Wait, maybe there has been a "few" issues.

built to "within tolerance " is not a QC issue!!

 

[silentflyer]

I realize it's an older gun, but I see this far more often in the newer production stuff. Most of the LGS I deal with will let me shoot a used firearm before I give them my hard earned $$$. Not so with a new gun.

 

[one eye joe]

I HAVE BEEN A SHOOTER FOR 60 YEARS, BOTH IN THE MILITARY AND CIVILIAN LIFE. I HAVE NEVER HANDLED A WEAPON IN THE MILITARY THAT HAD A CANTED BARREL/SIGHT. I HAVE COLLECTED AND SHOT COLT HANDGUNS FOR 50 YEARS, AND I STILL DO. I HAVE NEVER OWNED A COLT THAT HAD A CANTED BARREL, NOR EVEN HEARD OF THE PROBLEM WITH A PYTHON OR DIAMONDBACK--THE REVOLVERS THAT I PLAY AROUND WITH. I HAVE BEEN SHOOTING S&Ws SINCE THE '80s. NONE OF MY REVOLVERS ARE P&R. NONE OF THEM HAVE CANTED BARRELS. THE FRONT SIGHT OF ANY FIREARM NEEDS TO BE SET STRAIGHT UP AT THE 12 O'CLOCK POSITION ON THE BARREL. THE PRINCIPLES OF A PROPER SIGHT PICTURE RELY UPON THAT PREMISE. TO SAY THAT A 5 DEGREE CANT IS ACCEPTABLE IS A CROCK OF FECAL MATERIAL ! ! !

IF THE POI CANNOT BE BROUGHT TO COINCIDE WITH THE POA BY SIGHT ADJUSTMENT---YOU HAVE A SERIOUS PROBLEM. THE PROBLEM MAY BE IRRELEVANT IN A S/D REVOLVER, THAT WILL BE USED AGAINST A HUMAN TARGET AT CLOSE RANGE. THE LONGER THE DISTANCE FROM MUZZLE TO TARGET, THE MORE PRONOUNCED THE PROBLEM WILL BE.

COLT AND RUGER WERE ALWAYS ABLE TO GET THEIR BARRELS ON STRAIGHT. S&W USED TO BE ABLE TO DO IT--OR IF THEY DIDN'T, THE GUN DIDN'T SHIP. OBVIOUSLY SOMETHING HAS CHANGED. EITHER SOME CORNERS HAVE BEEN CUT IN THE MANUFACTURING PROCESS, OR THE BAR HAS BEEN LOWERED IN THE QUALITY CONTROL DEPARTMENT. CANTED BARRELS ARE NOW A PERVASIVE ISSUE. THE LACK OF COMMITMENT TO EXCELLENCE AND THE PRESENCE OF THE IL COMBINE TO STEER ME AWAY FROM THE PURCHASE OF A NEW S&W………

THERE IS A PERSONAL UPSIDE TO THIS. THE DEMAND FOR, AND VALUE OF THE S&Ws IN MY POSSESSION WILL CONTINUE TO INCREASE………..

 

[turbo38gn]

Thanks Joe.... I'll have to go check my Colts now..

 

[foytfoyt]

I have personally seen both Rugers and Smiths with canted barrels. Not saying I like it.

I had a SP101 come in from my LGS's warehouse with a canted barrel. They exchanged it for another, and claimed they would send the original back to Ruger.

The manager at my local range had a M&P R8 with a canted barrel. He sold it because the crane and cylinder became mis-aligned with the frame. S&W refused to fix either issue, according to him.

 

[Gryff]

I have two. What is the process of sending one back to S&W? Do they send shipping labels or do you absorb all cost?

I called S&W, described the problem, and they emailed me a shipping label. So far, I have no out-of-pocket expenditures on this effort.

Gryff, When it gets back see where te rear sight is. How far off center is it.

I'm curious also. When I sent it in, I had the sight cranked as far to the right as it could go, and my groups were still hitting a couple inches left of POA at 15 yards.

FYI, while I didn't have the opportunity to have anyone else shoot the gun, I am an experienced competition revolver shooter (IDPA and ICORE), and this is the third M66 I own.

Does it really matter.... but I will tell you, I just find these microscopic barrel location threads to be totally boring and unnecessary. As many have said, if it shoots straight, shoot it. It boils down to a gun that was fine before someone stumbled across a thread about it and suddenly the gun is a ***...

Hopefully you're not talking about me since the reason I sent the gun in is because it is still shooting left for me after cranking the rear sight to the right as far as it will go.

If you get your revolver back and it does not shoot to point of aim, I would send it back (with a target and description of the ammunition used) and ask for help. I would NOT mention anything about canted sights, the internet, or how you think they should fix it. JMHO. Good luck!

Excellent advice. Thank you.

 

[ModernRifle]

Why do I read these threads...... some of the responses are just unbelievable..

I"m with you on this one. I don't see anything wrong!

 

[ladder13]

built to "within tolerance " is not a QC issue!!

You talk like you build things yourself

 

[turbo38gn]

You talk like you build things yourself

only on occasion... just a poor dumb mechanic here...

 

[CH4]

Sell it to Steven Seagal, he likes guns with canted barrels

 

[diyj98]

built to "within tolerance " is not a QC issue!!

I agree. My point was that S&W isn't perfect and has certainly put out a few handguns with issues. I've seen a few firsthand. I'd be curious how many degrees off center is "within tolerance" versus someone just giving a b.s. answer over the phone.

 

[Gryff]

OK, gun came back today from S&W. Trying to figure out if I'm going nuts or not, because the barrel aligns perfectly with the frame, and the front sight is completely vertical. Nowhere in my three conversations with the S&W reps did anyone say that they adjusted the barrel (or even planned to). Just that the amount of rotation was within spec and they were sending the gun back.

The end result is that barrel looks perfect, and there doesn't appear to be a bill from S&W. So out to the range I go on Saturday to sight the gun in.

Other than a little confusing info from S&W, their willingness to evaluate my concerns was top notch (and all at their cost, too).

 

[rwsmith]

I THINK all they do......

I think we're on the same page, we just misunderstood each other.

Canted sights from the factory most likely meant the gun was torqued to spec and the sights didn't end up being top dead center. I would bet money they aren't going to loosen the barrel so the sights line up. The only other option is spin the barrel in a lathe and remove some steel so it can be rotated some more.

I think at the factory the final barrel torque is done by a guy with a padded pipe wrench looking thing made to grasp the frame correctly. It's not a torque wrench but seems he clocks it by sight.

The more powerful the gun the heavier the frame. I can't see the inertia of spinning a bullet torquing the frame of a gun to where it is permanently affected. That's saying that if you shoot a few thousand powerful loads with heavy bullets through your mod 29 that it's going to adopt a permanent 'twist' to the frame or barrel?

 

[Jamesatrange]

Gryff. How did it shoot? I can add that I've sent revolvers back to Smith and they have done some things for my benefit that weren't listed in the paperwork or discussed with a C.S. Rep. I think they have manager agendas and then the folks on the floor have the know how and know what's right for customer service. Quite possibly it was within spec and someone was told to ship it back because of that, but a smith on the floor knew it needed a slight adjustment and that smith did just that. Keep the faith, Smith has great people there but corporations are driven by the dollar and the gun building staff is pushed hard to keep products moving to keep sales flowing....with that things get overlooked sometimes...

 

[phonejack]

I have a M29-6 that has a canted barrel. It shoots great. Never noticed the cant until I mounted a scope on it . I had a bubble level on the side plate for verticle alignment and when another bubble level was placed on the barrel rib, HUH ! Oh well, doesn't effect my sight picture in the least.

 

[one eye joe]

Thanks Joe.... I'll have to go check my Colts now..

THAT'S A GOOD PLAN, turbo38gn. CHECK YOUR PYTHONS AND DIAMONDBACKS. THESE ARE THE ONLY COLT REVOLVERS THAT I HAVE EVER OWNED. I HAVE BEEN SHOOTING PYTHONS SINCE THE EARLY '60s AND DIAMONDBACKS SINCE THE EARLY '70s. COLT REVOLVERS WERE MADE WITH PRIDE UNTIL PRODUCTION STOPPED. I HAVE A COLT PYTHON ELITE--THE LAST PYTHON PRODUCED. NONE OF MY COLTS HAD CANTED BARRELS. I WILL BE SHOCKED IF ANY OF YOUR BARRELS ARE CANTED……

I HAVE OWNED A DOZEN OR SO SINGLE ACTION RUGER REVOLVERS. NONE OF THEM HAD CANTED BARRELS….

I HAVE OWNED A COUPLE OF DOZEN S&W REVOLVERS--INCLUDING A CURRENT PRODUCTION 617 W/ IL, AND A 642-1. NONE OF THEM HAS A CANTED BARREL. SHOULD I BE SENDING THEM INTO S&W TO HAVE THE BARRELS TWEAKED OUT OF ALIGNMENT IF "THAT'S THE WAY THEY'RE SUPPOSED TO BE" ? ? ?