Marshal Tom
Member
No doubt we will hear of someone being shot over being spit on. Just might make others think twice before being so stupid!
Coronavirus and Deadly Force
- Thread starter federali
- Start date
Rastoff
US Veteran
It would take a list of things to make deadly force reasonable:
I can't imagine the jury that would agree with your use of deadly force as of today. In this type of situation you will be guilty until proven innocent.
- You would have to know beyond a shadow of a doubt that the person has the virus before the act.
- You would have to be able to prove it was not accidental.
- You would have to prove intent
- You would need to be able to articulate all that to an ignorant jury in court.
I can't imagine the jury that would agree with your use of deadly force as of today. In this type of situation you will be guilty until proven innocent.
During these times, if I saw someone intentionally coughing or spitting on someone who couldn't defend themselves, and the perpetrator just seemed mean, as opposed to mentally ill, I would not shoot them, but would definitely attempt to knock them senseless.
But I can't imagine seeing that - here in Tacoma I believe it would be as likely as seeing a robbery or other assault.
As far as punishment goes, I think they should get jail time long enough to give Bubba alone time with them.
But I can't imagine seeing that - here in Tacoma I believe it would be as likely as seeing a robbery or other assault.
As far as punishment goes, I think they should get jail time long enough to give Bubba alone time with them.
GypsmJim
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It's not so much the act, as it is the intent.
If he says hes got it and he spits on you, he is committing a terrorist attack.
If he said that and was coming at me, I'd shoot him in such a way that it would be fatal, so he can't complete his act.
If he already had committed the deed, I would bash his %^$#@ head in with something other than a firearm.
But that's just me. If he did the same thing to a LEO, I would support whatever the officer did.
People that act like a terrorist, should be treated like a terrorist.
If he says hes got it and he spits on you, he is committing a terrorist attack.
If he said that and was coming at me, I'd shoot him in such a way that it would be fatal, so he can't complete his act.
If he already had committed the deed, I would bash his %^$#@ head in with something other than a firearm.
But that's just me. If he did the same thing to a LEO, I would support whatever the officer did.
People that act like a terrorist, should be treated like a terrorist.
Echo40
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Unless they're showing symptoms, I see no reason to believe it. Besides, based on what I understand about COVID-19, unless an infected person were to spit directly into your mouth or eyes, and you don't go touching the saliva with your hands then touching your eyes or mouth, your risk of infection is practically zero.
That being said, if someone with obvious symptoms were to spit on you, then I think you could easily justify shooting them in the leg or something to stop them and put distance between you before calling the police.
Also, it would obviously help to wipe off the saliva with a napkin or something then save it, that way you have DNA Evidence that they did in fact spit on you.
fredj338
Member
Covid19 is NOT a death sentence. Kill rate is tiny unless you are over 65 & have underlying conditions. So using deadly force for a might get sick & might die, yeah I see you losing that one.
fredj338
Member
Even then, not everyone exposed gets the virus. Not everyone that gets the virus gets sick. Not everyone that gets sick is even hospitalized. So I just dont see any justification for shooting some nut job that spits on me. Spitting is an assault though so if his nose & jaw get busted in self defense, I'm ok with that. Self defense is about what you know to happen not that you are afraid something might happen.
Fwiw, people need to get a grip on their fear over this virus. It isnt ebola. If the feds would get out of the way, private sector would have theraputic treatment & we can all go back to something that looks mormal.
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OP
federali
Absent Comrade
Foreknowledge?
If someone menaced you with a gun, you do not have to know whether or not its loaded, functional or even real before you act. Likewise, if someone is weaponizing the coronavirus and threatens to infect you for not turning over your wallet or car keys, this would seem to be enough. Lets face it, are you going to ask your assailant for a doctor's note?
If someone menaced you with a gun, you do not have to know whether or not its loaded, functional or even real before you act. Likewise, if someone is weaponizing the coronavirus and threatens to infect you for not turning over your wallet or car keys, this would seem to be enough. Lets face it, are you going to ask your assailant for a doctor's note?
dougb1946
Member
There are ways to get blood evidence with less than lethal means. The spit does contain DNA, and a nose bleed leave a fair amount of blood on your fist.
fredj338
Member
Not even close to the same thing. Again, you can be exposed to covid19 & not get sick. Last I looked, only superman was bullet proof. Stop being so afraid.
Trooper224
Member
If you shoot someone for coughing on you, you're fighting an uphill battle you're going to lose in court. You'll be even worse off if you make your decision based on legal advice obtained from a discussion forum.
I knew a thread like this was coming.
BTW - what caliber is best for a viral spreader?
Something like this.
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federali
Absent Comrade
Front End Alignment Needed
Let's confine this discussion to the deliberate use of the coronavirus as a weapon to commit an assault and please, let's not go around shooting people for coughing and sneezing in your presence. The criminal act would be the attempt to transfer the disease to you, whether or not there's a probability of success.
If I'm a criminal and shooting at you but my shots are so far off the mark, are you compelled to withhold fire? Must you also stop shooting while I reload?
Let's confine this discussion to the deliberate use of the coronavirus as a weapon to commit an assault and please, let's not go around shooting people for coughing and sneezing in your presence. The criminal act would be the attempt to transfer the disease to you, whether or not there's a probability of success.
If I'm a criminal and shooting at you but my shots are so far off the mark, are you compelled to withhold fire? Must you also stop shooting while I reload?
THEmodelof1989
Member
Making an analogy between someone coughing on you intentionally to get you sick, but not actually succeeding, and someone shooting at you, but not hitting you seems a bit off the mark to me. Simply coughing at someone, even with intent to get them sick, is no where near the same ballpark as getting shot at.
The bottom line is killing people for coughing on you, with intent to get you sick or not is an inappropriate reponse. In the military and law enforcement world we use something called escalation of force. When you have to stand on what we call "the red carpet" and explain why you used the force you used on someone, you end up being a criminal when you used excessive force. The conversation would go something like this "Could you have put him on his face and taken him off the street? Did even try that before shooting? No? So you just went straight to pulling the trigger? Good job, you are now a murderer".
... I just scrolled up and saw someone commented "shoot them in the leg"... oh man, it's been a while since I've seen form that bad. I'm going on a self prescribed bann for a few days. Cheers.
Shoot someone who spit on you, you'll be in jail until your prelim hearing, and Covid is starting to get a foothold in prisons and jails.
As it is, wife and I don't leave the house without masks on our neck to be pulled up if within 10 feet of anyone, as wth this virus just one careless moment could cost lives.
As it is, wife and I don't leave the house without masks on our neck to be pulled up if within 10 feet of anyone, as wth this virus just one careless moment could cost lives.
pantannojack
US Veteran
Frontier Justice?
US Law Shield had a webinar last night with program attorneys, and all of the attorneys that addressed this question advised against the use of lethal force against anyone claiming to have the virus that may cough or spits in your direction.
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