Feds vs iPhone

Google came out in support of Apple today. Pretty sure this will end up before the SCOTUS in a few years, barring a new administration in the White House asks the FBI to drop the case.

Putting on my tin foil hat and thinking the next target of a massive Sony-style hack from "North Korea" will be Apple.
 
oldguyshoot said:
With respect, some simple research (including reading this thread) would prove to you it's not that simple. The rest of what you said I agree with.
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My point is that Apple's compliance should extend to turning over whatever info is on that phone..... period. It should NEVER include forcing them to redesign the phone to make sure that 100% of the information is retrievable and viewable. This is just more of the panic mongering by Big Brother to circumvent legal process.

But then, I never thought I would live to see a high ranking official defending the use of random searches on people whose only crime was walking down the street either....... New York, New York........ this "encryption" attack is going after a basic right to privacy and we have already seen what they do without oversight (data "mining") so I am not buying this either.

We should be phoning our senators over this.... not that Feinstein would listen, but at least make them aware that we see what this is and we will retaliate at the polls.
 
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The FBI should have access to information in a phone which belonged to someone who killed 14 innocent people. That is why there is an FBI. Apple is wrong to not help. I don't think this will lead to them taking away my guns or rights. Besides, it will be a mess if they try. He he.
 
bountyhunter said:
My point is that Apple's compliance should extend to turning over whatever info is on that phone..... period. It should NEVER include forcing them to redesign the phone to make sure that 100% of the information is retrievable and viewable. This is just more of the panic mongering by Big Brother to circumvent legal process.

But then, I never thought I would live to see a high ranking official defending the use of random searches on people whose only crime was walking down the street either....... New York, New York........ this "encryption" attack is going after a basic right to privacy and we have already seen what they do without oversight (data "mining") so I am not buying this either.

We should be phoning our senators over this.... not that Feinstein would listen, but at least make them aware that we see what this is and we will retaliate at the polls.
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Sounds like we agree except for semantics. There is zero information Apple can retrieve from the phone without hacking the device.
 
Bajadoc said:
The FBI should have access to information in a phone which belonged to someone who killed 14 innocent people. That is why there is an FBI. Apple is wrong to not help. I don't think this will lead to them taking away my guns or rights. Besides, it will be a mess if they try. He he.
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The FBI should have access to any information they are legally entitled to, including the information on this phone. What they are not entitled to is forcing a company to perform law enforcement work for them on their behalf. Did you see the part of the court order that says Apple must provide the FBI with a quote for how much it will cost and they will pay them? Do you see now this is bigger than simply "give us a file out of one of your filing cabinets"? This is the FBI trying to force a company to work for them. So it's not "give us what's on the phone", they're saying "hack this phone for us on our behalf."
 
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In this discussion, maybe we need to separate legal obligations from moral ones.

Does Apple have a moral obligation to help the FBI?

What I would like everyone who answers "yes" to that question to consider is:

Do you honestly think the FBI will find evidence on the phone that is worth the risk it poses to the security of everyone else's data?

Ask yourself, do we already know why these people did what they did in San Bernadino? I think the answer to that is a solid "yes".

Do we think we may find another second-tier sympathizer who aided them (like the guy who purchased their guns for them)? I think the answer to that is "possibly".

Do you think we will find evidence of a larger domestic terrorist network and exposing said group will prevent future attacks? I think the answer to this is "not at all likely" given what we already know about the killers.

The FBI is only saying they want into the phone so we can "get all the answers" etc. I'm telling you, if Apple hacks this phone, we're going to find it's as empty as the killer's souls were the day they committed these acts of terror. Or porn. We might find some porn.
 
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LostintheOzone said:
This is why the FBI doesn't need to be able to hack your phone.

NSA employee spied on nine women without detection, internal memo shows | US news | The Guardian

Whatever happened to our 4th amendment rights?
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A VERY liberal colleague and I were talking today. To my surprise he thinks Apple should cooperate.-We're talking about a terrorist attack. I summed it up for him. You trust the government and I do not. I want the terrorists caught ans punished as much as the next guy-but unlike him, I do not trust the government to do the right thing.
 
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GtownGeorge said:
Have a guy from Apple go to FBI. He and a FBI agent sit in a room, to maintain the chain of evidence, he unlocks the phone and gets up and walks out of the room. *** is the issue with that?
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You're either not understanding or not believing the statement from Apple. Their claim is that they have no magic code to punch into an iPhone to unlock it. They can't do it any more than the feds can.
I for one hope they are telling the truth. This is a precendent that should not be set.
 
oldguyshoot said:
In this discussion, maybe we need to separate legal obligations from moral ones.

Does Apple have a moral obligation to help the FBI?

What I would like everyone who answers "yes" to that question to consider is:

Do you honestly think the FBI will find evidence on the phone that is worth the risk it poses to the security of everyone else's data?

Ask yourself, do we already know why these people did what they did in San Bernadino? I think the answer to that is a solid "yes".

Do we think we may find another second-tier sympathizer who aided them (like the guy who purchased their guns for them)? I think the answer to that is "possibly".

Do you think we will find evidence of a larger domestic terrorist network and exposing said group will prevent future attacks? I think the answer to this is "not at all likely" given what we already know about the killers.

The FBI is only saying they want into the phone so we can "get all the answers" etc. I'm telling you, if Apple hacks this phone, we're going to find it's as empty as the killer's souls were the day they committed these acts of terror. Or porn. We might find some porn.
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How do you know what they would find?
 
I'm no fan of the government, but they do have the right to search your stuff with probable cause. Killing 14 innocent people might just be construed as probable cause.
 
Fighting terrorism is not law enforcement, it really is a war. Sometimes in war distasteful uncomfortable stuff has to be done. If this war can be fought without discomfort and personal disruption I am all for it.
 
Gentlemen,

Leave out political commentary. There's plenty of good discussion on this topic absent making comments about Hillary or babbling about liberals / conservatives. Don't make me shut down my own thread.
 
Bajadoc said:
Fighting terrorism is not law enforcement, it really is a war. Sometimes in war distasteful uncomfortable stuff has to be done. If this war can be fought without discomfort and personal disruption I am all for it.
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Then Obama should coerce Apple by Executive Order the way Reagan took care of the air traffic controllers on strike. But Obama's not going to because even though we are at war, this phone is not strategically important.
 
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