Help ID Please

[Compass Will]

I am trying to ID a Smith and Wesson my Dad owns. He received it from his Dad, who we guess received it in the 30's. Its been stored in a leather holster since the 30's, so its pretty rough.

I have been looking at pictures for several days and found two I think this could be.
Armchair gun show calls one a .44 double action first model .44 Russian, and the other is a 44 DA Frontier.
Am I close?

I think its .44 something (bigger then the .38 he has), but can't read much of the stampings. We think we can make out May 11 80 and Jan something, 68

Serial number is 15507.
we would like to figure out what it is, and around when it was made.

 

[Compass Will]

I am trying to ID a Smith and Wesson my Dad owns. He received it from his Dad, who we guess received it in the 30's. Its been stored in a leather holster since the 30's, so its pretty rough.

I have been looking at pictures for several days and found two I think this could be.
Armchair gun show calls one a .44 double action first model .44 Russian, and the other is a 44 DA Frontier.
Am I close?

I think its .44 something (bigger then the .38 he has), but can't read much of the stampings. We think we can make out May 11 80 and Jan something, 68

Serial number is 15507.
we would like to figure out what it is, and around when it was made.

 

[cflier]

Will,
Your old Smith & Wesson probably is a Double Action 1st model in 44 Russian caliber. The S&W Frontier was serial numbered from 1 to 15340 and fired the 44 40 Winchester cartridge. Since your serial # is a little higher it makes it a 1st model.
Hope that helps,
Mark

 

[Compass Will]

Thanks cflier. Around when do you think it was made? Are they very Rare?

I only started researching S&W's this week. Its tough to figure out with all these "first models, 2nd models" etc.

thanks for the help.
Shame its not in better condition.

 

[Compass Will]

I have still been researching this one.
Its a double action, and the hammer still locks on the single action position (which I hear most are broke). I have read about 2 different cylinder lengths, this is the shorter one.

I understand it could be as early as 1887? I also understand that when it was made and which it was shipped could be years apart because S&W didn't rotate stock.

I also have the holster that looks original compared to some pictures I have seen. It has the small round piece sewn in at the bottom of the barrel. there is a couple letters stamped on the back of the holster but I don't recall what.

Since I am #167 after the model change, I thought that change was caused by a Russian contract. Could this one be part of that contract? Wonder how it got back to the USA.
All I know is my Grandpop had it since the 40's or earlier.

 

[deadin]

What is the measurement of the cylinder length?
That looks like the short cylinder, but eyes can be deceptive.

 

[Compass Will]

I read this, and I have the shorter one. I think it was 1-7/16" and not the the 1-9/16 one.
If you need a more exact measurement I can unlock the safe later tonight and check it out.

 

[Rikkn]

Cool Will, I just got one similar, and have been learning alot about it, mine has the longer cylinder and is s/n/ 4598, pics are a few threads down in this forum. I am having trouble finding a value, they seem to be all over the spectrum, from 700 to 2000 or more. I would love to see a picture of your holster, the one that came with mine is the real reason I bought it.

 

[deadin]

This thread and the one started by Rikkn brings up something I find interesting. Maybe Ed or another of the old-timers can shed some light on it.
I'm not sure I can even make my question clear, but……………
S&W started making the big top-break DA in 1881 as the .44 DA 1st Model and chambered it in .44 Russian. The serial numbering started at #1 and continued to #54668 ending in 1913 Total 1st models produced is listed as 53,590 units. That means there were 1,078 numbers skipped. As there were app. 1,000 .44 DA Wesson Favorites made, that's probably where these numbers went.
OK. In 1886 S&W started making the .44 DA Frontier in 44/40 Win.. The serial numbering started at #1 and continued to 15,340 in 1913.
I have to assume, (which is a dangerous thing to do when talking about S&W serial numbers) that there were a large number of "duplicate" serials shared between these three models. 15,340 to be exact.
Now, the Frontier required that the cylinder be lengthened to 1 9/16" to accommodate the longer 44/40 cartridge. The accepted way to identify a Frontier is a 1 9/16" cylinder and a serial under 15,341. The accepted way to identify a 1st model is any .44 DA with a 1 7/16" cylinder OR any serial greater than 15,340.
This leads me to assume (there's that word again) that S&W either stopped the production of 1st Model 1 7/16' cylinders in 1886 and didn't assemble any more 44 Russians until the run of Frontier frames was completed. (SCSW3 states that all .44 DA frames, both kinds, were made prior to 1899.) OR, they continued both frame/cylinder size production concurrently until the Frontier run was completed and then just assembled 44 Russians on the longer cylinder.
So now we have Comcass Will's gun with a serial greater than 15,340 which should have a 1 9/16" cylinder (which is matching the frame) but it has the short cylinder. This probably is just a case of S&W using up stock in hand, but it does beggar the question of duplicate serials and was there concurrent production of these two models? If there wasn't concurrent production it would appear to say that they produced 15,340 1st Models between 1881 and 1886, then produced the same number of Frontiers from 1886 until enough before 1899 to allow themselves time to produce another 39,328 frames by 1899. They continued to assemble both Models until 1913. All on the same frame size and keeping the serials seperate? Sounds too complicated to me.

 

[Compass Will]

Looking at the condition, is it worth it to get it lettered? Or would the letter only be worth clearing up some confusion?

 

[deadin]

Letters only cost $30 and will add at least that much to the value. Maybe much more depending on what it shows.
Were it mine, I would letter it.