hornet spray vs. attacker

[38-44HD45]

If I could really get my head around this and had a rather large clothing budget available, I'd go to all jackets, all the time, and a shoulder holster. That would do nicely. That would be a big, big change. Doable, but my head's not there yet.

I think you've hit it. "Get your head around it." I asked about the hugs because my son is a 3rd year med student, doing mostly clinicals, and recently completed a psychiatric rotation. He did receive a couple of (unwanted, unsolicited) hugs along the way.

I've carried in shoulder holsters, and sometimes still do, but they are less concealable (usually) and more "hug detectable" than a good belt holster. One to look at seriously is the Ken Null SKR. Your 640 is one of the guns it is made for, and it is about as low-profile as shoulder rigs can get. I've worn mine under a tucked shirt, with one button unbuttoned for easy access, with no printing. I don't know how well it will work on a woman's physique, but Ken likely does. I have fairly broad shoulders and a fairly narrow waist and hips, which helps concealment. Ken is a real gentleman, too, and the SKR is not expensive. If nothing else, it would be a cheap way to learn whether shoulder rig carry will work for you. Here's a link: K.L. Null Holsters Home Page

As for wasp spray maybe being a more reliable "instant stopper" than a bullet, I have my doubts. Will it slow a determined attacker? Probably. Will it blind him enough to stop an attack or allow your escape. Maybe, maybe not. Even pepper spray fails with some frequency. Would it buy you enought time to access your revolver? That may be the best question, and one to which there is no simple answer until after the fact.


Good luck to you. You are certainly to be commended for the thought you are putting into this. Very rational thought, I might add. And about getting older not being fun, I truly feel your pain!

 

[sheriffoconee]

I am sure you have an old DSM III laying around somewhere. open up a few pages, take a razor knife, and hollow out a spot for the small revolver to fit...leave it on the corner of your desk next to a spot you would retreat to if you had to retreat from your client....
no one is gonna steal an old DSM....
Hollowing out a book to hide a gun has been done since someone invented books I imagine..a large encyclopedia or other innocuous thick book would work as well....
hollowing out a book to hold a gun takes a while...and you might cut yourself, so be careful....ask me how I know
http://rive.rs/projects/hollow-a-book/
or you could buy one
http://www.secretstoragebooks.com/

 

[walnutred]

Given you client base you might consider keeping an air horn handy. They do not have to be aimed and a loud blast might distract or disorient your attacker long enough for you to retrieve your firearm.

 

[sipowicz]

Just make sure you get hornet spray...Wasp spray works on Protestants but doesn't work on minorities.

 

[jimonfly]

Larry from the Bend mentioned the KelTec 32. I have a P3AT in .380, which is also very slim and easy to conceal. They make a clip for it which mounts to the side. With that setup you could easily move it around your waist, put it in a pocket, etc. depending on what you are wearing. The only trick is to remember where it is when you need it.

 

[jimmyj]

Hi:
Perhaps the Female Forum Members can offer advice on carrying CCW.
I remember one new Female Member's first post was how could a small female conceil a Walther PPK wearing a mini skirt and tank top?

 

[38-44HD45]

Hi:
Perhaps the Female Forum Members can offer advice on carrying CCW.
I remember one new Female Member's first post was how could a small female conceil a Walther PPK wearing a mini skirt and tank top?

I think the key to that is distraction. Who's going to be looking for a gun?

 

[ColbyBruce]

I feel for you. A fire extinguisher is not out of place anywhere, so get one. A direct blast of CO2 will temporarily startle, choke, and blind an attacker. Then club said attacker with the body of the extinguisher until you can reach your handgun or another defensive item.

 

[ArmyCop]

I've been hearing more and more lately that wasp spray - long strong stream - to be a very good alternative to pepper spray.

Thinking is how people would react to seeing pepper spray and don't think twice about wasp spray.

AND

If anyone does ask - a simple answer could be "I've had some wasp problems and keep it handy in case they come back".

As far as how damaging it is - I've only heard it's very effective in the face of a bad guy but nothing as to what's recommended for first aid or how bad the damage is. Hey, If situation is bad enough to need it I wouldn't' worry about THEM too much. THEY shouldn't have done whatever it was they did to make me use it.

 

[AirLitenewbie]

Thank you, 38-44hd45, for the kind reply and good ideas. I'm adding your holster recommendations to those I will check out shortly.

Thanks to everyone, as always, for the support and information.

I feel for you. A fire extinguisher is not out of place anywhere, so get one. A direct blast of CO2 will temporarily startle, choke, and blind an attacker. Then club said attacker with the body of the extinguisher until you can reach your handgun or another defensive item.

Believe it or not, getting onto the fire extinguisher idea was what led me to the hornet spray. I was actually going to get a fire extinguisher when I thought about hornet spray having a more directed stream and frankly, much easier post-incident clean-up. Fire extinguisher sure beats spray can for a striking weapon, however.

I've been hearing more and more lately that wasp spray - long strong stream - to be a very good alternative to pepper spray.

Thinking is how people would react to seeing pepper spray and don't think twice about wasp spray.

AND

If anyone does ask - a simple answer could be "I've had some wasp problems and keep it handy in case they come back".

As far as how damaging it is - I've only heard it's very effective in the face of a bad guy but nothing as to what's recommended for first aid or how bad the damage is. Hey, If situation is bad enough to need it I wouldn't' worry about THEM too much. THEY shouldn't have done whatever it was they did to make me use it.

This was my thinking, exactly. And no, I'm not worried about the bad guy at all. I'm not afraid of hurting them with hornet spray -- I want to know how much I can hurt them with it.

I am sure you have an old DSM III laying around somewhere. open up a few pages, take a razor knife, and hollow out a spot for the small revolver to fit...leave it on the corner of your desk next to a spot you would retreat to if you had to retreat from your client....
no one is gonna steal an old DSM....
Hollowing out a book to hide a gun has been done since someone invented books I imagine..a large encyclopedia or other innocuous thick book would work as well....
hollowing out a book to hold a gun takes a while...and you might cut yourself, so be careful....ask me how I know
rive.rs
or you could buy one
http://www.secretstoragebooks.com/

I laughed out loud when I saw this! It's so fitting and evil-in-a-good-way. I'm still laughing, and may actually do something like this.


This thread was never meant to be a mental exercise/experiment for me, but it turned into one. In addition to getting lots of ideas and good information, it caused me to really think about how I feel about self-defense, what limits I feel about it, and why. I concluded that I'm in a pretty decent place with it for the moment, meaning measures taken so far, and also measures not taken. There's a balance between living with maximum safety and living with maximum freedom/fulfillment/comfort/satisfaction/whatever, and we all have our own right place on that spectrum. My right place on the spectrum, for now at least, involves not wearing a gun on me when doing therapy. I don't like it, it feels wrong, and considering this thread for a day or two has helped me realize there's nothing wrong with that. It feels wrong enough to me that I prefer accepting the increased physical risk that potentially comes with the choice. I could, for example, turn my home into a barred fortress with security systems that keep me safe but make me feel like I live in a prison; I have elected not to do that because it's more important to me that it feels like a home than that it be the safest it could possibly be.

I've brought guns into my life to feel safer, and have changed a number of things (some specifically involving the guns) to support the "be safe" project. I am much, much safer now than before, but not as safe as it is possible to be. Because of info from this thread, there are more changes I will consider and some I will put into action. Some things will be left undone because doing them would start to turn my life into something I don't want it to be. There's more than one way to "save" your life, I'm seeing, and so I'm going for the best of both worlds.

Again, many, many thanks. I wish you all safety and peace.

 

[AirLitenewbie]

hollowing out a book to hold a gun takes a while...and you might cut yourself, so be careful....ask me how I know
rive.rs
or you could buy one
http://www.secretstoragebooks.com/

P.S. to everyone -- you have to check out the link above about how to hollow out your own book, even if you never care to take on the project. The info is really good, but actually presented with great humor as well. Love this!

 

[cmort666]

Just make sure you get hornet spray...Wasp spray works on Protestants but doesn't work on minorities.

Hornet spray only works on masked Asian chauffeurs. Make sure he doesn't kick it out of your hand...

 

[sheriffoconee]

I figured pulling your piece out of an old, hollowed out DSM would be amusing. I am sure people in your profession would be analyzing that for YEARS to come...

For what it is worth, I see people all the time who are trying to find a balance between maximum safety and maximum freedom. Freedom comes with risk, and for each of us we have to find our acceptable measure of risk. You can minimize your exposure to violent assault, and then get killed driving home.
We may not have expressed it the same way you did, but everyone here has had to make those same decisions in their life.
Good luck, and thanks for posting.....

 

[ColbyBruce]

Airlitenewbie, you might also look into taking some self defense courses. A fire extinguisher in the hand is better than a gun in a drawer. You have to have the mentality to use either, and use them until they are no longer needed. A faceful of CO2 is great, but a smashed jaw, broken knee, and a side of cracked ribs are icing on the cake. Knowing what to do, how to do it, and most importantly that you CAN do these things will enable you to see such an incident through and prevail. Good luck to you, I wish you the best.

 

[Garland]

I would be one to find a can of hornet spray on the desk in a professional office setting somewhat unusual. I love the hollow book idea, though. If you decide to go the spray route, there are pepper sprays designed to look like lipsticks and such:
Lipstick Pepper Spray

 

[mike2010]

WASP spray is not more effective than pepper spray! It's made to kill a WASP! This again is a MYTH that is going to get someone seriously hurt!
I do appreciate that blogs like this one are sharing proactive safety ideas. That's a good thing. However, WASP spray is not more effective than Pepper Spray! Police departments worldwide use pepper spray because the inflammatory effects of this agent work on those which cannot feel pain (very important). The inflammatory effects of pepper spray cause eyes to close involuntarily and produce a loss of breath sensation. Pepper spray has been proven effective on deterring and incapacitating aggressive, combative, intoxicated and drug induced individuals for over 20 years.
To date, no human testing has been conducted on WASP spray and it's a violation of federal law to use in self defense. WASP sprays' labels state, "It's a violation of federal law to use in any manner inconsistent with this label." There are many home defense pepper spray options which will deploy up to 25 feet and unlike WASP sprays, these pepper sprays do not require the user to be as accurate because their spray pattern will cover an entire doorway. Pepper spray is a safe, proven option which is trusted and relied upon by police officers worldwide. Stick with the Pepper Spray!

 

[ENGINE18]

I have a headache!

 

[AirLitenewbie]

To Garland: the spray can is at my feet next to a desk, unlikely to be seen at all, and unlikely to be thought much of if it is seen. I will check out the lipstick pepper spray, however; was unaware that this was available in disguise, so thanks for that heads-up.

To Mike2010: It's never been my thought that wasp spray is better than pepper spray, or even as good as pepper spray. What I like about it is that it's a normal-looking object that can be used if necessary. Since it doesn't have to be hidden, it's more accessible than anything else (other than a fire extinguisher). I am curious about how it can be legal to shoot someone dead with a gun, but not give them a faceful of bug spray. Does anyone know the legalities of this for sure?

To Engine18: thanks for the chuckle.

 

[The Big D]

...I am curious about how it can be legal to shoot someone dead with a gun, but not give them a faceful of bug spray. Does anyone know the legalities of this for sure?

Ms ALnewbie, have you had any self-defense and/or firearms training whatsoever? I don't expect an affirmative answer given your questions. That's correctable and suggest you get some, ASAP, prior to using some of your invented techniques.

If you used bug spray or anything else, literally, to defend yourself whilst attacked you are likely okay, legally. However, you are already planning to use a toxic substance for other than its intended use. That will likely get you in legal difficulty.

Go to Galco, Active Pro Gear, Lobo Gunleather or any other holster site and get something that will work for you. If you are in danger, a gun is most appropriate on your person.

I personally know female LEO's who successfully CCW j-frames and even larger semi-autos on their person w/o difficulty.

Be safe.

 

[AirLitenewbie]

Ms ALnewbie, have you had any self-defense and/or firearms training whatsoever?

Actually, I have, from a female LEO. I don't remember anything like this being mentioned, which is why I'm asking and trying to learn more.

Thanks for the clarification on the question.