Arizona5906
Member
Here is a related Youtube video on this book:
BookTV: Paul Barrett, "Glock: The Rise of America's Gun" - YouTube
How did S&W lose the LE market?
- Thread starter Silversmok3
- Start date
Here is a related Youtube video on this book:
BookTV: Paul Barrett, "Glock: The Rise of America's Gun" - YouTube
Fishslayer
US Veteran, Absent Comrade
Cheap to LEA. I don't really see it in the civilian market. The COD/MW kids buy 'em (and overpay IMO) because "It's what cops & SEALs use!"
Their argument is "They're used by XX percent of cops blah blah blah." They think cops use 'em because they're the best or something.
Glock fanboiz... :facepalm:
Just thinking about it makes it funny on so many levels. A large percentage of civilian buyers choose their equipment based on the fact that it's what the pros use, from firearms to AR add-ons, holsters, flashlights, ammo, and even pepper spray. The fact that it was all purchased in a bidding war and not because it was the best of those tested is something the fanboys refuse to acknowledge. It reminds me of HK's marketing of the early 1990's. The story I read was that sales of their USP was a bit slow out of the starting gate, but once their SOCOM Mk 23 was adopted by the Navy SEALS they immediately began a marketing blitz in gun rags, bragging about how HK pistols were the choice of America's elite. Sales from the civilian market jumped soon afterwards.
fiasconva
Member
S&W must have learned something from Glock's tactics. A ton of PD's have switched over recently. I'm still looking for the 3rd gen 45 trade-ins.
Actually Glock learned it from S&W who was doing the same thing long before Gaston was even making curtain rods. It's a common business practice used by all major companies competing for the same business.
When Chevy redesigned the Impala in 1991 it was a dud in the civilian market. PDs, cab companies, and other large fleets were getting great deals from Chevy. The new rounded body style was a radial change from the previous squared corners and the public didn't care for it. Chevy knew if they got it out there where people could see it all the time they would eventually become use to seeing it and start buying. In the mid 80s Dodge fell on hard times. They were giving PDs and fleets great deals on the Dodge Diplomat so the public would see them and hopefully buy too.
kbm6893
Member
Head over to the gunzone and type in "NYPD Glock 19". The story is no joke. The Glock 19 had serious issues in the early years (1993-1996). The guns were having serious malfunctions and Glock refused to do ANYTHING about it. They told the job it was the ammo's fault, yet the SIG and S&W that were also authorized ran just fine. There were several documented failures in real shootouts on the street, one by an ESU officer (NYPD SWAT) who had two failures within a few weeks. Glock let cops walk around with a defective weapon for nearly 18 months, and only fixed the problem by recutting the ejection port to a 45 degree angle when the job contacted Ruger for replacement of nearly 15,000 Glock 19's. Once they realized they were about to lose their biggest contract, they sent an armorer to the city to fix ALL the Glocks, and we were given loaner guns until the change was made. Even now, when there is a problem, they don't issue a recall.
Glock stepped into the market at the right time and made their mark by selling guns almost at a loss to get their foot in the door. If I was GIVEN a Glock, I'd sell it for a beat up 5906.
kbm6893
Member
Until 1995, NYPD cops bought their own weapons. When the 9MM was authorized, the choices were the Glock 19 for $325, the S&W 5946 for around $440, and the SIG 226 for around $600. The Glock was the overwhelming choice due to price. In 1995, the union picked up the tab, and officer had to pay $75 for night sights. The guns chosen became far more evenly distributed once cost was not a factor. I would wager if a cop was given the choice to carry what he wanted, the Glock would be far less prevalent.
S&W is getting a large share of the market back. Glock is not as favorable now as it was 20 yrs ago. Many departments are switching back.
I know one dept that was furnished Glock 17 at $300 each and then Glock gave $325 for each of their old S&W guns. Most tax funded departments would have gone for that deal.
I know one dept that was furnished Glock 17 at $300 each and then Glock gave $325 for each of their old S&W guns. Most tax funded departments would have gone for that deal.
runwiththeherd
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Politics and personal preferences don't trump bottom line costs for most agencies. We issued 3913 and 6906 weapons for more than ten years. We also had nothing but excellent support from S&W. When the issued weapons reached the end of their service life, we received a offer from S&W for replacements. Glock also placed a bid. It wasn't even close. Low bid won and we transitioned to Glock. Most folks in my agency know of no other service weapon. Used to be most cops were "gun guys." Today, I'm not so sure.
Exactly right, Capt. We all know that ISP was the first large agency to adopt the Smith auto. We saw it every year in every advertisement that the Factory or gun magazine put out during the era of the shift of law enforcement from the revolver to the auto. It may have been the single most important factor in that transition.
Nothing wrong with being the first to adopt something as long as it meets well established and tested criteria. Price is only one element in the equation; admittedly an increasingly important one in the economy that most purchasing agencies find themselves today. If the Glock ever fails to continually meet and exceed stringent ongoing evaluation I doubt they will remain on top for long. No indication of that happening, however.
Bob
I wondered when somebody was going to bring that up. It shouldn't happen, of course, but the field stripping procedure for the Glock has been something of an issue in this regard.
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It is my understanding that this is exactly what has been happening with Glock as of late. Between the issues with Gen 3 light rails on their .40's and the reliability issues with the new Gen 4's, Glock's reputation has taken a hit. If they don't recover soon, they may well take a market share hit as well!
Matt
One trip to my LGS confirms your theory. They outfit most departments in central Ohio and as such, get in a lot, as in thousands, of Law Enforcement trades each year.
If Ohio cops are gun guys, it sure isn't with their service weapons. Looking at these 10 to 20 year-old guns, the outsides are well-worn - through the finish - but the bores are pristine.
fdnyretired
Member
Three reasons...
Money
Money
Money
Money
Money
Money
sw44spl
Member
We were going to the M&P40 after using G22s it was in the bag.Then the crying glock company really under cut S&W so we now got stuck with the gen4 g22.and most dont like it. Since we went to them more have failed to qualify than did with the gen3s.Like has been said we carry the cheapest ones the towns and counties can get.
stantheman86
US Veteran
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Why the difference with the Gen 4 over the Gen 3? How would that effect qualifying?
CAJUNLAWYER
Member
This thread is wasted here-it ought to be over on the Glock forum 
sw44spl
Member
they are jamming and stovepiping alot.one deputies gun had the rear sight as far left as it would go new out of the box.also when you get the new gen4 they only let you get one grip insert.then you go qualify.we are having a time getting the non shooters qualified.
1 old 0311
Member
This thread is wasted here-it ought to be over on the Glock forum
NOT till we get to "the best round for Zombies."
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