LEO use of Smiths...???...

Here in NC the Raleigh Police department has always carried S&W revolvers and semiautos. They are now carrying S&W M&P's, The DOC carried S&W revolvers until reciently. The NC probation and parole carried S&W model 66's and they are now carrying M&P's. The NCSHP just got a contract with S&W for the .357sig M&P's.

It seems that S&W is making a comeback in the world of Law Enforcement. Maybe one day our agency will switch from the Glock.
 
im not a fan of polymer firearms i still have my trusty s&w 5906 and i will never get rid of it:D
 
A number of departments in my state, including a major city and my own town, have dumped the old guns (Glocks, IIRC, in the case of the city; 4006's in my town) to go to the M&P .40.

Good move, in my opinion. The M&P is safer than a Glock (what isn't?) and FAR lighter than the old crunch-n-ticker 4006.

I say that having owned both a 4006 AND a Glock 23.
 
It basically came down to cost with alot of Police Departments in the 1980's and 90's.Glock would have all the competition severely undercut so it became the overriding factor.My friend is in NYPD where they are given a choice of DAO Sig Sauer,Smith and Wesson,And Glock.She is a S+W person but says that Glock is chosen because it is the least expensive........MIke
I have recently become acquainted, with great pleasure, with the S&W family of 3rd generation pistols. My question is, why did the police departments abandon them? The local departments all seem to go for Glocks and the like. I guess I can understand the flight from the 9mm (without necessarily agreeing with the reasoning), but S&W offered 40's, 45's etc...
Is there really a relatively short useful life for a service weapon? If not, why all the trade-ins?
I ask from ignorance...
 
I can't comment on why other departments have abandoned S&W autos, but I can comment on why my old department (about 700 sworn) did...

I was issued a new 5906 when I entered the academy in 2002 and carried it for roughly five years. We were trained to sweep the safety while drawing the weapon from the holster, and I never had a problem with the safety being on when it shouldn't have been. I also shot roughly 200 rounds through it a month, so I was very familiar with it and shot it well.

My thoughts on the pistol:

-It was very accurate with a very short trigger reset, and I considered it more of a target gun than a combat gun. It was very easy to shoot quickly and accurately, and I always qualified "expert" with it.

-It was extremely heavy (compared to other autos) and most guys at my department refered to the 5906 as "The Brick."

-The fit and finish was relatively poor (most had visible tool marks and sharp edges).

-The 5906 was prone to breaking. I went through two extractors in five years and many other guys at my agency did the same. The decocking levers also regularly fell off. It never happened on my gun, but I saw it several times at quals.

-Last, I hated the fact that the 5906 had a magazine disconnect...A feature that in my opinion has no place on a fighting pistol.

Around 2007, the powers that be at my old agency decided to drop the 5906 and begin issuing the Sig 226/229 with SRT. We also had the option to carry the HK USP in 9, 40, or 45 at our expense, but we were no longer able to carry the 5906. I opted to carry my personally owned USP 45c.

The reasons cited for the switch were many including:
-Frequent breakages/repair issues with the 5906.

-The desire to do away with any sort of manual safety. Like another poster mentioned, our guys felt that there was a possibility the safety could inadvertantly be left engaged in a high stress sitaution and wanted to make sure that wouldn't happen. In fact, I had to convert my USP to "decock only" before I was allowed to carry it on duty since the new firearms policy specifically prohibited guns with manual safeties.

-The desire to move to a pistol without a magazine disconnect. Our guys wanted our officers to be able to fire the chambered round if need be while performing a tac reload or if the magazine was dropped while fighting for the gun.

I no longer work for that agency, but am now with an agency that issues Sigs and lets it officers carry any firearm from a reputable maker in 9, 40, or 45. I carry a Glock 21SF as my primary weapon on duty, and a S&W 340PD for a BUG and off-duty piece.

S&W makes top-notch wheelguns and a lot of officers I know use them as back up guns. With that said, I can't think of a single officer who thinks highly enough of S&W autos to carry one on duty. Most of our officers currently carry Sigs, Glocks, HKs, XDs, or 1911s.

RJ
 
well everbodys entitled to their opinion but i still think the 5906 is the best 9mm pistol out there:D i only paid $399.99 from cdnn new in the box:D made in 2005 no tactical rail non tsw model was made for puertirico police dept. from the serial number bdh**** product#149479:D
 
I have carried 3rd generation Smith's (6906, 3914 and 4046) for service pistols and would put one back in the holster any day of the week. They were all VERY reliable, accurate and came with the lifetime warranty. I've also had the privilege of being able to buy all of those retired pistols and a few more 3rd generations (6450 (transition from 645 to 4506) and a 4516-2).

Currently I carry an M&P40C as that's why my dept. issued me. I'm happy with the pistol. It rides nicely on my hip while in uniform, plain clothes and even under a T-shirt in an IWB holster. It also shoots very well and the felt recoil is less than a Glock 23 that I was forced to carry for about 4 years while Detectives were issued either the G23 or G27 and uniformed folks either carried the 4046 or later the SW99 in .40. Not too long ago I actually shot two qualification relays back to back. The first with the M&P40C and shot a 98.6%. The G23 was fired in the second relay and I was not at all pleased. I hadn't shot it much over the past year as I transitioned to the M&P in April, 2008. The G23 functioned fine but was not as comfortable in the hand and my score was in the 80's (can't remember exactly what the score was because I tore the target off the backer and threw it away!)

So back to the debate about S&W in L.E. use. The lifetime warranty is a HUGE incentive for anyone that buys a Smith. But on top of that, Smith also has a "911 Priority Service" that can be very beneficial for L.E. Our dept. armorers have had times where they needed to send either the 4046, SW99 or the newer M&P40 (full size or compact) back for warranty repair. Normally the factory sends a confirmation letter to the dept. advising that they have received the pistol for service. When the pistol is sent for service it is overnighted and Smith typically has it back out within 24 hours. We have actually had times where the gun came back the same week and the receipt confirmation letter arrived after the gun had already been returned. All with a no charge bill.
Now when my dept. switched to Glock's for Detectives and the G22 for SWAT there were several times where guns were gone to Smyrna, GA for MONTHS and there was always a bill for repairs. Glock also charged for all spare parts while Smith was happy to send spares so that armorers could make repairs at the range rather than send a gun back for repairs or new parts. And the bill for the Smith parts, No Charge.

From a business standpoint with a government agency (even at the local level) where the bureaucrats are concerned about the bottom line they probably don't care if you carry a Kel-Tec or a Kimber if the price tag is right. Smith seems to be going out of their way trying and succeeding in transitioning departments from earlier Smith models (and other brands) to the M&P's. Heck, some agencies are even ponying up with the M&P15's in addition to the M&P pistols! And if the powers that be sign off on the purchase order than I'm all for it.

I will always be a Smith fan and I realize that some of their guns have been lemons. But, they always stand by their products and want to make it right. For the law enforcement community, offering 1 for 1 trades for used trade-ins for new M&P's, free holsters for the new guns or swapping out ammo when a dept. changes calibers are all icing on the cake. And I would be willing to bet that since you're on the Smith Forum you are probably a Smith fan as well. If you're not, you're certainly surrounded by them.

And the BS about officers being killed because of not being able to place a safety into Fire position or the magazine disconnect mentioned in previous posts... I'd like to see the documentation on that. Here in Charlotte we had one officer years ago that had his issued 5906 taken from him while he was off duty and the bad guy pulled the trigger with the safety (decocker) in the down position and the trigger was disconnected and the gun did not fire. This undoubtedly saved the officer's life. We also had several cases where officers fighting for retention of their pistols were able to drop the magazine from the gun and rendered it a 2 pound club. Love it or hate it, the magazine disconnect can save an officer's life when they are fighting to hold onto their gun.

Enough said for now... :)
 
Interesting thread.

I stumbled into a 3rd gen S&W not to long ago when I was made an offer I couldn't refuse on a 4006. When I took it home and stripped it to clean it up a bit, I was floored by the quality of the construction. Forged frame, forged slide, lots of detailed machine work expertly done, no tooling marks to speak of. By other accounts here, that may not always be the case but the third gens I have seen look "old-school" expensive to make and well turned out. No wonder Glock (a fine pistol in its own right) clubbed them like a baby seal with pricing all those years.

Ironically, I think S&W is dishing it out now. I am told by some LEO's that Glock sure doesn't have the service it used to and now has difficult dealer policies (all the $$ up front, delivery when we can get to it). I have also been told S&W has aggressively been pushing M&P's, especially to agencies having 3rd gen autos. I think they finally have a worthy product, sense that Glock has rested on its laurels and are out for payback. Maybe Glock USA doesn't care much, because worldwide they sell everything they can make.

I am surprised S&W has told any agency they will no longer support 3rd gen autos. Maybe that is a "stick" to get them to trade them in for M&P's.
 
How long does a Lifetime Warrant actually last?

I have a question regarding the claim (in this thread) that Smith & Wesson will no longer service 3rd generation autos. How do you honor a Lifetime Warranty if you no longer service a particular product??? It seems to me that Smith may be getting away from making 3rd generation S&W Autos because of the great cost to make them over the cheaper polymer framed pistols. But I believe a Lifetime Warranty means that they will service the pistol pretty much for all time. After all, they can fabricate pretty much any part they need in the Springfield, Massachusetts factory and hand fit or install the part when an older pistol or revolver comes in for service.

That being said, I think someone was trying to say (or maybe interpret is a better term) that Smith won't be selling (or servicing) the older models so you better get the latest and greatest. To me it sounds like maybe there was a former car salesman (no offense intended) that was trying to push the 2010 model. Anyone else think this is a bit fishy??
 

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