Increasing Reloading Speed

[Qc Pistolero]

WoW!Tall order you got there!But I think there's an answer to every problem.Here is what I think.First,like FredJ338 said(and I too had lots of crushed primers in auto index press),a primer might/will detonate only if it gets an impact.Don't go slamming the ram up and it shouldn't happen.
As for your output target vs tool to use within the parameters you have,I wouldn't go with an auto-indexing press but rather with a manual indexing one,like the 550.
I've got both of them and my goals being similar to yours,if I'd have known,I'd have gone manual indexing with both.I know,the output is a little less with manual but I load for fun and I don't have as much fun when I keep wondering if everything is under control.
Qc

 

[cds43016]

I understand fully, I run both presses. Possible, sure anything is possible, people get struck by lightning & win the lotto. I submit still, something else happened other than normal priming. I have crushed primers in my 650, never a detonation. Even if it did, the steel tube will protect the reloader better than anything Lee ever built. I do know several reloaders injured by detonations using their Lee however. Why Lee specifically states to NOT use Federal primers. I am pretty sure Dillon has no such admonition.

You make my point. People do get hit by lighting and win the lottery. It only needs to happen just once. Events shouldn't happen but they do.

My goal is to produce the highest quality ammunition in the safest way possible. People can get hurt reloading if they are not careful and constantly diligent regardless of the equipment they use. Most equipment today is high quality regardless of brand. The real variable is the person using it. I want to go faster but I will not sacrifice safety nor quality to do so. I will also not go out of my comfort zone just to reach some number. Off press priming and making sure the powder level is safe is my comfort zone. Also the more things that happen at a time, the greater likelihood of a lapse.

Other people’s comfort zone may be different. That’s OK but this is mine. I just want to use the best equipment available.

The times I posted were total times, from the time I enter the reloading room to the time I turn out the lights. Not dead slow but not fast either. The dog doesn’t get through the door until his tail does. Most estimates don’t include the ancillary and preparatory tasks around reloading. My estimates do. I try to be very diligent and careful when I reload maybe to a fault. But I know when I go to the line, I have the best and safest ammunition that I can possibly produce.

In my match days, I saw a few squibs on the line and an overcharge. Fortunately, no one was hurt. For these to happen there was a lapse somewhere. That’s why I never shoot reloads done by someone else. I don’t know the diligence they took. I also don’t want these events to occur just because I was in a hurry to reload. Yet, if can go a bit faster without comprising quality and staying within my comfort zone, I’m for it. That was the reason for my inquiry.

There is a lot of expertise and experience here.

 

[Wise_A]

I understand fully, I run both presses. Possible, sure anything is possible, people get struck by lightning & win the lotto. I submit still, something else happened other than normal priming. I have crushed primers in my 650, never a detonation. Even if it did, the steel tube will protect the reloader better than anything Lee ever built. I do know several reloaders injured by detonations using their Lee however. Why Lee specifically states to NOT use Federal primers. I am pretty sure Dillon has no such admonition.

I don't understand it, either. He's got a whole tirade about Federal primers in his book, and then suggests only loading 20 or 25 primers at a time in the on-press device.

I think his big thing was not having all the primers in a line. At any point in the Lee on-press priming tool, no primer is ever facing another primer.

I understand what Lee was saying, but I don't particularly agree with it.

*shrug*

People have been injured by primer detonations in all makes and model of press and priming tool. And they've been injured by being idiots. It's not that I don't care or think that all designs are equally "safe"...the design just isn't the focus of safety, imo.

Hence, I don't handle primers carelessly, and I always wear safety glasses when I load. Costs me nothing, and might save me a lot.

I do ignore the aforementioned warning about Federals. I load 50-100 primers at a time, whether they're large or small, and whether they're Federal, CCI, or Winchester.

I really like the Lee on-press priming tool. Refilling primers takes just a minute--the tray in the device doubles as a flipper. And I don't have to mess with primer tubes or strips or anything.

 

[cds43016]

Reading the responses, the focus of this tread has shifted to primer detonation especially on a Dillon 650. This was not the intent of my post. Can it happen? Yes. Likely to happen? No unless your careless or unlucky. But it does happen. If it happens on a Dillon 650 the probability of a chain detonation is increased because of the design. But the 650 does have safeguards in place if it occurs.

Primer detonation is a potential problem but not the reason I prime off the press.

If there is a problem in the reload process, many times it’s a problem with the priming. A primer falls on the floor, a primer is flipped over, sideways you name it. It can happen just as easily in hand priming as it can on the press and it does. When it happens, the reloading flow is disturbed and can lead to other mistakes when it happens. Possibly a squib or an overcharge. It was certainly a problem with the Lee 1000. I was constantly fixing or adjusting something. When that happens, mistakes can happen. You must have discipline to reload especially with a progressive loader. Are there better presses than the Lee 1000? Certainly, the answer is Yes – just about any. Fortunately, I never produced a bad load with the Lee 1000 after many thousands of rounds, But I could have if I wasn’t paying attention. If I could do that on that press, I’m not concerned any of the new ones. It couldn’t be any worst.

When I started with the Lee Turret I tried priming on the press but it wasn’t great either - doable but not great. The biggest problem I was having was not priming but trouble seeing inside the case of the 327 and 357 even with lights and mirrors. I was hard to determine the exact charge because of the light loads I was using. I could see powder but was it right? The RCBS Powder checker die to the rescue. Works wonderfully except that I needed another die position. I didn’t want to give up seating and crimping in separate steps. Since the priming wasn’t that great, I took out the sizing die and did sizing in a separate step on an extra press I had. Now what to do about priming? Size and prime on the turret? No been there done that. Tried hand priming. It works great. I felt like I had good control and a great feel of what’s happening. It felt good and made it part of case inspection. Would it work well if I was loading 500 rounds at a time? Probably not.Hand would get too sore. But for what I do load and project to load very workable especially if it is spread out.

Taking priming off the turret makes that whole process on the turret simpler. I just have to put the case in the shell holder, pull the handle to dump powder, another to check the load, seat the bullet on the case after a quick powder check again, another handle press to seat and another to crimp. Loaded round is automatically ejected to a completed bullet tray. I very seldom have to stop with a problem and none because of primers. My arch nemesis before. The Inliine Fabrication case kicker works great. Final inspection with a case gauge and done.

Could I go faster? Yes, but I take my time to be sure everything is right. The older I get the simpler I like things even if there are more steps. This process is very simple and easy to stay focused. Extra steps but fewer moving parts at one time and easier to correct a problem when it occurs.I like that.

Still four pulls of the handle. I think I could better. If I was using a progressive I have only one handle pull without loss of control and quality following the same steps. This seems easily managed and should be very smooth, quick and easy to stay focused. This is what I’m considering. Besides on press priming is always an option, just not one I want to take advantage of at the moment.

 

[Beemer-mark]

I don't understand it, either. He's got a whole tirade about Federal primers in his book, and then suggests only loading 20 or 25 primers at a time in the on-press device

I used the old Lee hand primer for decades. Almost always with Federal LP primers. Never and issue - until all 25 blew up in my hand and sent me to the emergency room.

In hind sight, there is a warning, clean your priming tools on a regular basis to get the primer dust out.

There is a reason for the tirade in the book. 25 primers going off is rather spectacular.

 

[Beemer-mark]

I have two Dillion Square D presses. Had them for a long time. I gave up on the priming system. It'll work great for thousands of rounds and then I end up spending weeks to get it working again. decapping and priming in a separate operation gives me a chance to inspect each piece of brass and ensure the primer is seated correctly.

In reloading, speed is not always a good option.

 

[sasu]

My progressive experience is just a few weeks and around 500-800 rounds of 357 Magnum, 45 ACP and 44 Magnum.

I have never liked priming on a press and thus have been priming with a hand primer. To my surprise the Dillon RL550B priming works smoothly and provides pretty good feedback. This is especially noticeable with 45 ACP where I have reloaded a mix of different cases and they have different primer pockets, including crimped ones. I can feel when there is trouble seating a primer fully.

Now I am looking at a Hornady LnL AP and/or Dillon XL650, mostly out of curiosity. The RL550B is already very nice, and the manual indexing is not a problem at all.

I load 100-500 rounds at a time so a super high production rate is not all that important to me.

 

[NJM15]

I too use Lee

I have two Lee 1000's, one for handgun calibers and one for my .223 and .308 the only rounds I do progressively are .9's and .40's
.38/.357 the Sig .357 require a little more attention and do them manually using a Lee reloader press, same with the colt longs. I know it takes longer , but im not in a hurry and it pays to be safe. After all I don't want to have to buy a half a pair of gloves. A shooter at the range double loaded a 45 colt and blew the cylinder out of his Uberti, hit one finger but he still has it.
The gun was junk afterwards

 

[fredj338]

Well, if you are determined to prime off press, your process seems reasonable. That was the question, right?

I would suggest using your Lee Turrent Press to deprime and size, if you have room for two presses on your bench. Or us Inline Fabrication Mount with quick change. I've had good experiences with it.

I've recently switched from a Lee Turrent to a progressive (unnamed per your request). Been happy with the change, though, there was a bit of a learningt curve.

Good luck with your search.

Just me maybe, I don't get the concept of buying two presses & doing multiple steps when one press can do it all 3-4x faster??

 

[fredj338]

You make my point. People do get hit by lighting and win the lottery. It only needs to happen just once. Events shouldn't happen but they do.

My goal is to produce the highest quality ammunition in the safest way possible. People can get hurt reloading if they are not careful and constantly diligent regardless of the equipment they use. Most equipment today is high quality regardless of brand. The real variable is the person using it. I want to go faster but I will not sacrifice safety nor quality to do so. I will also not go out of my comfort zone just to reach some number. Off press priming and making sure the powder level is safe is my comfort zone. Also the more things that happen at a time, the greater likelihood of a lapse.

Other people’s comfort zone may be different. That’s OK but this is mine. I just want to use the best equipment available.

The times I posted were total times, from the time I enter the reloading room to the time I turn out the lights. Not dead slow but not fast either. The dog doesn’t get through the door until his tail does. Most estimates don’t include the ancillary and preparatory tasks around reloading. My estimates do. I try to be very diligent and careful when I reload maybe to a fault. But I know when I go to the line, I have the best and safest ammunition that I can possibly produce.

In my match days, I saw a few squibs on the line and an overcharge. Fortunately, no one was hurt. For these to happen there was a lapse somewhere. That’s why I never shoot reloads done by someone else. I don’t know the diligence they took. I also don’t want these events to occur just because I was in a hurry to reload. Yet, if can go a bit faster without comprising quality and staying within my comfort zone, I’m for it. That was the reason for my inquiry.

There is a lot of expertise and experience here.

Ok, i know you are a new guy, but news flash, reloading can be dangerous. Use the equip as designed, not likely to have an issue. You can what if it to death, but i dont wear a seatbelt & helmet when i drive. Respect the process but don't fear it. Generally, stupid people have accidents because they dont follow the rules & rush the process.

 

[fredj338]

I have two Lee 1000's, one for handgun calibers and one for my .223 and .308 the only rounds I do progressively are .9's and .40's
.38/.357 the Sig .357 require a little more attention and do them manually using a Lee reloader press, same with the colt longs. I know it takes longer , but im not in a hurry and it pays to be safe. After all I don't want to have to buy a half a pair of gloves. A shooter at the range double loaded a 45 colt and blew the cylinder out of his Uberti, hit one finger but he still has it.
The gun was junk afterwards

Many guns have been kb with ammo made ona ss press. It is always the process & nut pulling the handle. Some people can't reload, they do 't have the focus & attention to detail. That is why there is factory ammo.

 

[cds43016]

Ok, i know you are a new guy, but news flash, reloading can be dangerous. Use the equip as designed, not likely to have an issue. You can what if it to death, but i dont wear a seatbelt & helmet when i drive. Respect the process but don't fear it. Generally, stupid people have accidents because they dont follow the rules & rush the process.

I know reloading can dangerous but I don’t fear it at all. I do, however, respect it and have been enjoying it as a hobby since 1970. Knock on wood, I have never produced a bad load or had a safety problem. Safety is always first.

Your right about the human element being the major variable. Reloading requires concentration to be safe. You should make sure you are not preoccupied or in a hurry and your equipment is maintained and safety systems on the equipment is not disabled or bypassed when reloading. At the very least, always wear safety glasses when reloading and shooting.

Oh by the way, please wear seat belts when you drive. They are there for your safety and in most states it's against the law to drive without them. A helmet is optional.

 

[Triggernosis]

I used the old Lee hand primer for decades. Almost always with Federal LP primers. Never and issue - until all 25 blew up in my hand and sent me to the emergency room.

In hind sight, there is a warning, clean your priming tools on a regular basis to get the primer dust out.

There is a reason for the tirade in the book. 25 primers going off is rather spectacular.

What supposedly caused the primers to go off?

 

[Carrier]

I prime on my LNL and have no issues. Very smooth operating and priming.

 

[Engineer1911]

It's the process, not the press

The only time I have had a primer detonation is with brass that had a crimped primer pocket when I missed removing the crimp. It has happened 4 or 5 times on my Dillon 450 or 550. Also it happened one time on a Dillon 650 with 45 ACP brass that had a crimped primer pocket. In all events it was a single primer, there was no chain reaction.

CDS4306, your reloading methods are very safe but will be very difficult to increase your production rate because of the number of times you handle an individual piece of brass. Priming "off press", cleaning each primer pocket, individual inspection at each stage are time consuming that reduces your production rate. Your overriding concern is absolute safety, not a high production rate.

The unspoken fact in most of these threads is, "We trust our progressive machines to load acceptable ammo at 400 to 800 rounds per hour without excessive hands-on visual checking." To stay in your 'safety and comfort zone', you want to perform those checks. Your reloading process is very time intensive.

I've been reloading since 1974, used Dillon progressive presses since 1981, and simply trust my presses to do the functions accurately and safely because of their design. I haven't cleaned a primer pocket since 1978 since I proved to myself that it didn't reduce my group sizes. I'm not an extreme precision benchrest shooter or a perfectionist. I don't use maximum load powder charges so there is no need to weigh every powder charge. My process works for me, but I know you could never be comfortable using my method. I can't imagine using your process for just 5 test rounds.

To increase your production rate, you have to change your process, not go to a progressive reloading press. Your process eliminates any increased efficiency inherent in the design of a progressive press. Any changes to your process will take you out of your safety comfort zone. Just save your money and continue your reloading process with the press you now use.

I'm not attacking you or criticizing your reloading methods. To increase your production rate, you need to change your process, not buy a "faster" progressive reloading press.

 

[LAA]

Talk about an over reaction thread.....

As has been stated, you'd litterly have to intentionally quick smash a primer to get it to go off. I don't freak out about primers as some have.
I once said what happens with primers burning off in a can, and got the impression from some, that major explosions happen. They don't. They pop a few feet.

No way, would I hand load primers off press, when using a Dillon 650. I think that anyone who really uses these machines will soon find, the smoothness & technique to avoid flipped primers, no primers, and sideways primers. While a beginner might end up with 20 screwed up primers per hundred, that will quickly go to a zero count, or one or two at best.

Oh by the way, please wear seat belts when you drive. They are there for your safety and in most states it's against the law to drive without them. A helmet is optional.

As to this, seven years ago, I hit a deer at 65 mph on a motorcycle, as it leaped off a hill and over the left side of the highway, to land directly in front of me. I hit it's direct mass on a 800 pound bike, but it didn't blast through it. Instead the front wheel was pushed into the engine. I was thrown over the windshield, hit the asphalt on the left side of my head, and tumbled over & over for 150 feet. Time did seem to slow, as I was conscious, with no feeling of pain. My mind, said, when will I decelerate?

I did happen to wear a full face helmet that day, considering I often didn't on cross country rides. The helmet saved my head, the face guard flipped down to save my face, and somehow I didn't break my neck. The helmet did take out my collar bone, shoulder blade, and all left ribs were broke, as well as a non-functioning left lung.

But, I'm still here to prime on the 650! Just thought I'd throw this in for anyone wondering about helmets. P.S. Protective clothing helps too. I wasn't wearing any. Severe road rash, that took doctors hours to clean up.

 

[fredj338]

Good thing you didn't have your seat belt on!

 

[Engineer1911]

I think we found our new Marathonrunner.

 

[reddog81]

"To be honest, if you're dissatisfied with your production, it's because you're using your turret press as a single-stage, my friend."
I agree with Wise_A.

I use a Hornady LNL and i'm very pleased with it. With every pull of the handle I put a cleaned case in and drop a bullet on and a complete round drops out. The primer slider can get dirty and start to hang up but other than that I haven't had any issues with the 10,000 plus rounds that I've done on it. The biggest annoyance is how fast you go through the 100 primers in the tube.

 

[rwsmith]

Speed isn't the issue for me....

....but taking some of the work out of it is. I'm considering going to a progressive because it's one pump instead of three for each bullet. I've also been streamlining some to speed up without losing quality. Got a digital scale that I like, and a RCBS Uniflow powder measure. It's easy and accurate enough that I don't have to use my scale nearly as much to check weights.

I've absorbed a lot of work over the years just keeping my operation cheap, but now easier is in the cards.

I may also try repriming on the press whereas now I use a hand loader.