Inserting yourself into a shooting can have deadly consequences . . .

[Echo40]

You should never feel like a fool for saving a life, especially not when the person you saved would have surely died otherwise. It's not foolish, it's valiant and honorable.

Furthermore, it's not just instinct, otherwise everybody could do it. Regardless of whether you're aware of it or not, it takes a lot of courage to rush headlong into danger for the sake of someone else whom you're not particularly close to, especially something as terrifying as a burning house which presents a huge number of potentially fatal variables.

Obviously, it's good to be humble and not to be prideful of such things, but that doesn't mean that you should sell yourself too short over it either. You did a good thing, so you shouldn't deny it.

 

[Muss Muggins]

That's not what this thread is about . . .

You should never feel like a fool for saving a life, especially not when the person you saved would have surely died otherwise. It's not foolish, it's valiant and honorable.

Furthermore, it's not just instinct, otherwise everybody could do it. Regardless of whether you're aware of it or not, it takes a lot of courage to rush headlong into damage for the sake of someone else whom you're not particularly close to, especially something as terrifying as a burning house which presents a huge number of potentially fatal variables.

Obviously, it's good to be humble and not to be prideful of such things, but that doesn't mean that you should sell yourself too short over it either. You did a good thing, so you shouldn't deny it.

 

[steelslaver]

Well, as I mentioned, it's only my opinion. I just don't favor Constitutional Carry. My experience with people doesn't lead me to have confidence that even most will perform reasonably with a firearm under extreme stress. People regularly get mad, scared, emotional and make bad decisions.

I contend you can send an idiot to school train him for years and still have an idiot. Training does not fix idiots. That is my experience with people.

 

[steelslaver]

I've stayed out of this discussion until now.

After making the original post and 6 more in the thread your going to say that???

Alright then.

 

[Muss Muggins]

Out of 85? Yes. You have four. And I haven't argued open carry, whether he should have done what he did, or the level of CCW training that should be required. Read for content, not for volume . . .

After making the original post and 6 more in the thread your going to say that???

Alright then.

 

[Muss Muggins]

Mine as well. I meet them constantly, and they always attempt to explain how things should work. They're always wrong. Dealt with two today . . .

I contend you can send an idiot to school train him for years and still have an idiot. Training does not fix idiots. That is my experience with people.

 

[BC38]

That's just bizarre, or perhaps trite.

Actually it is very to the point.

The point being that there are a lot of people in the LEO community with an US vs THEM (cops vs "civilians") mentality.

You seem to be one of them as this isn't the first time you've taken a position that seems to come from that perspective.

 

[Muss Muggins]

Can we focus on the known facts, please?

Actually it is very to the point.

The point being that you are one of those in the LEO community with an US vs THEM (cops vs "civilians") mentality.

This isn't the first time you've made this perspective clear and obvious either.

 

[BC38]

Can we focus on the known facts, please?

Facts or opinions?

Seems to me that the original post isn't about the facts - the facts are that the guy did something heroic followed by doing something foolish, and it got him killed by mistake.

Your original post seemed to be about your opinion that he should have only used his ccw to cover his own escape - because that is what you would do. The implication being that we shouldn't attempt to defend others because it might put us in danger ourselves.

Did I miss something?

 

[Muss Muggins]

I did nothing of the sort. There is no fact that the fellow in question did something heroic, or that he did something foolish, or that what he did was a mistake.

Please read the OP again. I quoted it below. Those are your opinions. I also never said anything about him using his CCW to cover his own escape, which by the way clearly didn't happen. The implication that you cite is yours, not mine. I said this, in case you can't scroll back, and yes, you clearly missed something . . .

This happened Monday in Colorado, yet this morning was the first I have heard or read of it. A man ambushed, chased, and killed an Arvada, Colorado police officer. A bystander rushed from a nearby establishment, shot and killed the gunman, and picked up the gunman's AR-15 style rifle. Responding police shot and killed the Good Samaritan. The Daily Mail has an extensive article:

Facts or opinions?

Seems to me that the original post isn't about the facts - the facts are that the guy did something heroic followed by doing something foolish, and it got him killed by mistake.

Your original post seemed to be about your opinion that he should have only used his ccw to cover his own escape - because that is what you would do. The implication being that we shouldn't attempt to defend others because it might put us in danger ourselves.

Did I miss something?

 

[biku324]

None of us are getting younger, so we all need to stay in shape. Casting aspersions and jumping to conclusions is really about the only exercise one can get on an internet forum.

 

[retrieverhunter]

As I get older, I find myself looking at situations and saying "not my monkey, not my circus" more and more, and ANY situation involving a cop is definitely "not my circus".

 

[BC38]

I did nothing of the sort. There is no fact that the fellow in question did something heroic, or that he did something foolish, or that what he did was a mistake.

Please read the OP again. I quoted it below. Those are your opinions. I also never said anything about him using his CCW to cover his own escape, which by the way clearly didn't happen. The implication that you cite is yours, not mine. I said this, in case you can't scroll back, and yes, you clearly missed something . . .

O-K!

So shooting someone who is ambushing cops isn't heroic. Got it.

Picking up the shooters AR wasn't a mistake. Got it.

And the statement in your title that "inserting yourself into a shooting can have deadly consequences" combined with your ending statement that "I have long maintained that my concealed pistol is present to make sure me and mine get safely home. This incident reinforces that position, at least for me" doesn't imply that this guy made the wrong choice in your opinion OR that he should have done what you would do. Got it.

 

[KidK]

"If possible be on the phone with the dispatcher to let them know who you are, where you are and how you are dressed."

As a rare minority in California (a legal concealed carry permit, non-LEO), I have given this issue considerable thought. My training and subsequent thoughts on this topic convinced me that I always need an ear piece connected to my cell phone when I'm carrying a weapon.

Not sure I would be as quick, or brave as this individual, but I am sure I'd be on the phone with 911 as quickly as possible. If I sent my family out of harms way, they know to call 911 and relay my status, clothing and CCW status immediately.

I hope to never find myself in this position, but I'm thinking the same as Marshal Tom on this topic.

 

[LennyLames]

There's a very low probability that I'll be involved in a similar event, but with training and situational awareness, I hope I'm sufficiently prepared. Only a real situation will reveal how I'll actually react, but to quote one of my CCW instructors: "If it ain't kin, I ain't in" meaning I should only get involved if immediate family is in danger.






(Tongue in cheek)
I'm much more concerned about the aftermath of the police shooting. Should I start preparing for more:

rioting, looting and hooliganism in the big cities;
orders to law enforcement not to interfere, leaving bystanders and shopkeepers unprotected;
more calls to defund the much needed police force?

Hopefully not. If there's a W.L.M. group, it's such an inutile organization. I don't think they even give out free T-shirts and banners. Can't even organize highly disruptive, violent and destructive riots under the guise of "peaceful protests."

 

[Muss Muggins]

You left out the last words of my OP. "Your mileage may vary . . . "

O-K!

So shooting someone who is ambushing cops isn't heroic. Got it.

Picking up the shooters AR wasn't a mistake. Got it.

And the statement in your title that "inserting yourself into a shooting can have deadly consequences" combined with your ending statement that "I have long maintained that my concealed pistol is present to make sure me and mine get safely home. This incident reinforces that position, at least for me" doesn't imply that this guy made the wrong choice in your opinion OR that he should have done what you would do. Got it.

 

[steelslaver]

The statement "inserting yourself into a shooting can have deadly consequences" is a simple fact and this event is very much an example of that. The why you inserted yourself into the shooting has little to do with that FACT. Someone attacks my family and I insert myself into the situation by shooting them can have deadly consequences, both from the perpetrators and any responding LEOs. It does not matter why or how you got involved, whether it was "your business" or not when law enforcement rolls up having a gun in your hand, rapid movements or nothing might mean your demise. Who knows the level of training or experience the responder will have, the information he has or their temperament. A report of shots fires and people on the ground and you standing there makes you a possible threat.

THINK ABOUT IT.

 

[retrieverhunter]

I read this in a book, and it's not a horrible idea. One solution might be if CHL holders wear a badge on a chain around their neck, and if they're on the scene of an incident like this one, they can take it out to identify themselves as a "good guy". The badge on say "concealed carry", so it wouldn't be confused with LE.
Personally, I wouldn't do it, but it's not a horrible idea.

 

[Jon651]

I read this in a book, and it's not a horrible idea. One solution might be if CHL holders wear a badge on a chain around their neck, and if they're on the scene of an incident like this one, they can take it out to identify themselves as a "good guy". The badge on say "concealed carry", so it wouldn't be confused with LE.
Personally, I wouldn't do it, but it's not a horrible idea.

And what is stopping a "bad guy" from having one of those badges?

I think it would be better to have NOTHING IN YOUR HANDS and you HANDS UP when the police arrive. No badge required.

 

[biku324]

Don't put on a badge.

Whoever commits impersonating a peace officer is guilty of a misdemeanor. Upon a second or subsequent conviction, the offender is guilty of a fourth degree felony.