Interesting read on missing military weapons.

[Bekeart]

Can of Gernades Found

Stolen grenades found in ammo can.
30 found of original 32



Military stumped by stolen box of armor-piercing grenades

Military stumped by stolen box of armor-piercing grenades | Newser

 

[Absalom]

….
I suspect that stealing firearms from the military was even more common during times of war. I remember seeing 1911's, carbines, and other items in my younger days and often the guys who had them would say "I snuck it home in a dufflebag" or something similar. The surplus stores were full of these guns at cheap prices. The great majority of these guns were never reported stolen, or if they were, the reports are where you can't find them. .

Indeed. Given the forum’s demographics, the hand-wringing about everything including the country going to heck in a handbasket is entirely predictable. But I don‘t buy at all that that the disappearing of a percentage of issued guns is getting worse. In fact, it‘s likely getting better.

The better record keeping made possible by computerization is making it more obvious and makes it a lot easier to actually keep track of who has what, and what is supposed to be where. Of course, it also provides much easier data for “shocking stories” like the one that started this thread.

But just considering how many families of veterans seem to have weapons that Grandpa or Dad carried in whatever war they fought, the American public seems to always have been cool with the concept of Uncle Sam just letting discharged soldiers taking guns home

 

[Greyman50]

Pet peeve and rant follows:

Basic trainees were used as interior guards on many posts. "Armed" with empty rifles on remote ranges they were targets. PVT Snuffy challenges some redneck at a back gate only to to get beat up, tied up and relieved of his M16. Only luck might be is the Commander of the Relief should be showing up with his replacement within two hours.

The stupid practice of sentries being required to carry empty weapons has gone on for decades. In the worst cases, during guard mount the soldier was inspected to make sure his ammo pouches were stuffed with newspaper so they looked full.

One post in Germany I remember they kept an ammo can chained and padlocked to the guard shack floor at the main gate. It contained two magazines of five rounds each, to be issued in the event of emergency. The key was kept with the Brigade Duty Officer, a mile and half away.

In basic at Ft. Campbell in 71, live ammo was issued the cycle before ours, a trainee shot and killed another on interior guard at the ammo dump. Our cycle got nightsticks, lol. Had guard at ammo dump driving around, blood was still by gate house where the guy was shot couple weeks before.

 

[Old_Cop]

No brass, no ammo Sir.

 

[AJ]

In basic at Ft. Campbell in 71, live ammo was issued the cycle before ours, a trainee shot and killed another on interior guard at the ammo dump. Our cycle got nightsticks, lol. Had guard at ammo dump driving around, blood was still by gate house where the guy was shot couple weeks before.

I was the Guard Chief at a Marine Barracks in Calif. from 86-89. The sentries had ammo in their magazines, but not allowed to load them into the weapon. Finally the Commandant authorized us to allow the sentries to put loaded magazines in their weapons, but no rounds in the chambers until given a specific order.

I, then went to the Marine Corps Security Force Battalion (Pacific). We were authorized to carry condition 1 after training.

 

[Goldstar225]

Theft or "loss" of military weapons is not a new thing or caused by the current military members as opposed to the old. I read that in the 1870's and 1880's that the fine for "losing" the issued peacemaker was in excess of the market value to discourage soldiers from selling their issued gun. As many have already addressed quite a few war bring backs by soldiers were in fact stolen guns that they kept when discharged from service.

Given the millions of military members over the years and the millions of guns in inventory I'm not surprised by the numbers.

But then again how many members on this very forum have had guns they misplaced for a while or had stolen from their cars/trucks. Some of whom have a very cavalier attitude about it.

The number of guns unaccounted for from the military is insignificant compared to the numbers stolen every day from John Q. Public.

 

[steelslaver]

Once upon a time in the 1980s I was running a wrecker at night. I would take it home and head out from there. I only lived about 1/2 a mile from the shop and would often walk back and forth. On the route was a National Guard depot or what every you call them. One time there was a small van type truck beside it with the back doors open. There were racks of M16 and a few M60s visible as I walked by it and nobody was there. Never saw a soul as I strolled by thinking 4 or 5 blocks walking along loaded down with a few 16s and a 60 probably wasn't going to work out well. I still can't believe how bad the security was.

 

[riverrat38]

I was on guard duty at the ammo dump at Fort Ord in 1964, during my basic training. Definitely no ammo in our M14's. I do not remember if we had our bayonets affixed.
There was a long straight dirt road that the relief used to access the post. We were not supposed to smoke on guard duty, but we knew that we would have plenty of warning if the Sargent of the guard paid a visit.

73,
Rick

 

[LVSteve]

Somebody asked where AP got their information. From the article much of it came from multiple Freedom of Information requests, though not all were honored.

As for weapons being "lost", I have no doubt that some are stolen. That said, poor accounting can "lose" things easily, and computer systems don't necessarily help. Remember the "garbage in, garbage out" principle.

 

[Racer X]

Interesting story. New term I’ve not heard before: automatic assault weapon. Guess it’s a sub-category.

as opposed to bolt action assault weapon? Better bury your M1903s people.

 

[Sumpta]

Once when my Son was on leave, he was called asking for his help / suggestions at finding 1rd. of 5.56 missing after quals.
It was never found....probably some kid stuck it in his pocket for a souvenier

You can't just grab a round and toss it in, lot numbers have to match....pretty big deal actually.

Firearms missing would be a huge and far reaching NCIS investigation.

 

[pharmer]

74 "machine guns" lost. Is that just M249 and 240's or some .50 M2's? Throw in the 70 "destructive devices" and the potential for a serious party is readily apparent. Joe

 

[LoboGunLeather]

Then there are the federal, state, and local law enforcement agencies. At one time the FBI acknowledged about a hundred full-auto weapons unaccounted for.

Since 9/11 the Defense Department has been sending M16, M4, and M14 rifles out to law enforcement agencies, ostensibly "on loan" for homeland security purposes. More than a few cannot be accounted for.

Dozens of federal agencies have their own LE agencies and nearly all are equipped with serious fire power. Even the National Parks Service and the IRS have SWAT teams these days.

Not all of those weapons are kept locked up in arms rooms, like the military utilizes for nearly everything. Many (if not most) are issued to individual officers and kept in vehicles or homes, to be deployed on an as-needed basis.

I suspect that military storage and accountability are among the most stringent. But nothing is an absolute guarantee against pilferage, greed, or stupidity.

 

[Golddollar]

Somebody asked where AP got their information. From the article much of it came from multiple Freedom of Information requests, though not all were honored.

As for weapons being "lost", I have no doubt that some are stolen. That said, poor accounting can "lose" things easily, and computer systems don't necessarily help. Remember the "garbage in, garbage out" principle.

That's for sure. After a received my 1911A1 from the CMP, I put in a FOIA request with the US Army to see it could give me a history of my pistol. My pistol was made in 1943, and the report I received in response to my request said that the initial record found relating to my pistol was from 1992.

 

[steelslaver]

Are weapons lost during conflicts air crashes etc counted. I can see a m4 or the like being lost in a wars zone.

 

[PALADIN85020]

The current nominee for director of the ATF may have had a gun stolen from his car in the past - there are witnesses that say it happened, but he has denied it vigorously. ATF says their records do not show it....

Inquiring minds want to know...

John

 

[Old Arkansawyer]

The current nominee for director of the ATF may have had a gun stolen from his car in the past - there are witnesses that say it happened, but he has denied it vigorously. ATF says their records do not show it....

Inquiring minds want to know...

John

FBI agents had some stolen from a car parked outside a motel
in Memphis about 20+or- years ago.

 

[Old Arkansawyer]

I almost forgot, Patrick Sherrill used Air National Guard pistols to kill
14 and wound 6 in the Edmond, Ok post office back in the 80's.
He was an ex marine and was on the air guard's pistol team and their
instructor. He had permission to take weapons home.
People in his neighborhood called him, "crazy pat". Maybe the guard
should have been a little more diligent.

 

[Steve912]

74 "machine guns" lost. Is that just M249 and 240's or some .50 M2's? Throw in the 70 "destructive devices" and the potential for a serious party is readily apparent. Joe

Tracing out all the AP article references, possibly the last
seven stolen, were M2's (fifty cal machine guns). Strong thieves!

 

[Steve912]

FBI agents had some stolen from a car parked outside a motel
in Memphis about 20+or- years ago.

Not to mention the one in SF, four years ago...


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