LC Smith 12ga shotgun DOB info

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Just acquired my very first SS. It's an ideal grade, London Steel
30" full choke barrels, 2 triggers. I know next to nothing about these shotguns. Was told it takes 2 1/2" shells but then read all of the SS are chambered for 2 3/4" shells.

It has a serial number of RE56836 Would really like to get a
manufacture date for this. Not sure what I'm going to do
with it, might keep it might sell it.

Any help much appreciated.

Regards,
Dick
 
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You also may want to go to shotgunworld.com. and go to the "I love my...." section or the classic shotguns section. Lots of good info on that site. Good luck.
 
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With the Barrels marked 'London Steel' I'd believe the gun would be an earlier production made by the Hunter Arms Co of Fulton NY (and that would also be marked on the BBl's).
The ser# in that case would indicate a mfg yr of 1922.

That ser# also shows up later.
56,800 + could have been one of the very last of the LCS guns made under Marlin Firearms Co control in 1950.
That was the last yr of production under Marlin ownership of the company.
But as stated, I believe your gun to be a 1922 production from the markings given

Marlin had bought out the Hunter Arms Co of Fulton NY and brought production to NewHave,,n. 1946 to 1950.
Marlin renamed it the 'L.C.Smith Gun Co."
They started ser# production with a new block,,Starting at #1 and running to approx 56,800+ according to most references.

The prefixes to the ser# are just that and indicate frame size and with or without ejectors on the gun.
The prefixes had been used since 1913

The RE prefix means Regular Frame (Ejector)
The other posible prefix was FW for Featherweight Frame.
FWE would stand for Feather Weight Frame (Ejector)

Chamber length would be 2 3/4" with a Marlin mfg/late production gun (1950).
If it's the 1922 production, the 12ga chamber length would be 2 5/8"
This 2 5/8" is considered a 'short chamber' by todays standards.
Many who shoot vintage SxS's use low pressure loads in 2 3/4" hulls in their guns. The short chambers and also very short and abrupt forcing cones in front of them are the reason for treating the older guns with low pressure loads even when 'steel' bbls are in place.
2 5/8 and 2 1/2" 12ga shotshells are available from a few specialty mfg'rs and are generally low chamber pressure loads as well aimed at vintage SxS use.

The London Steel bbls were standard on the Ideal Grade, though Damascus were an option on the earlier production guns.
There was no fear of the Damascus Steel bbls as there is today. But the loads of the day were different as well.

The Marlin mfg guns of the 1946-50 era were made with Steel bbls only.
 
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LC Smith

With the Barrels marked 'London Steel' I'd believe the gun would be an earlier production made by the Hunter Arms Co of Fulton NY (and that would also be marked on the BBl's).
The ser# in that case would indicate a mfg yr of 1922.

That ser# also shows up later.
56,800 + could have been one of the very last of the LCS guns made under Marlin Firearms Co control in 1950.
That was the last yr of production under Marlin ownership of the company.
But as stated, I believe your gun to be a 1922 production from the markings given

Marlin had bought out the Hunter Arms Co of Fulton NY and brought production to NewHave,,n. 1946 to 1950.
Marlin renamed it the 'L.C.Smith Gun Co."
They started ser# production with a new block,,Starting at #1 and running to approx 56,800+ according to most references.

The prefixes to the ser# are just that and indicate frame size and with or without ejectors on the gun.
The prefixes had been used since 1913

The RE prefix means Regular Frame (Ejector)
The other posible prefix was FW for Featherweight Frame.
FWE would stand for Feather Weight Frame (Ejector)

Chamber length would be 2 3/4" with a Marlin mfg/late production gun (1950).
If it's the 1922 production, the 12ga chamber length would be 2 5/8"
This 2 5/8" is considered a 'short chamber' by todays standards.
Many who shoot vintage SxS's use low pressure loads in 2 3/4" hulls in their guns. The short chambers and also very short and abrupt forcing cones in front of them are the reason for treating the older guns with low pressure loads even when 'steel' bbls are in place.
2 5/8 and 2 1/2" 12ga shotshells are available from a few specialty mfg'rs and are generally low chamber pressure loads as well aimed at vintage SxS use.

The London Steel bbls were standard on the Ideal Grade, though Damascus were an option on the earlier production guns.
There was no fear of the Damascus Steel bbls as there is today. But the loads of the day were different as well.

The Marlin mfg guns of the 1946-50 era were made with Steel bbls only.

Sure do appreciate all of your great information. I just looked over the gun again and I think you nailed the production
year correctly. This is what I found.

Top of right barrel is marked LC Smith Ideal Grade
Top of left barrel is marked Hunter Arms Co Inc M'F'R'S
Fulton NY USA

Bottom if both barrels also have the stamp LLH

Left barrel flat is stamped RE56856 and under that is stamped
I "eye"

Is 1150-1200 considered in the range of low pressure loads
for this shotgun.

Let me know if this helps you confirm that 1922 production date.


Regards,
Dick
 
The 1150-1200 is the velocity of the load in FPS.
It doesn't indicate the pressure of the load.
That FPS rating can be obtained at pressures varying from around 5000psi all the way to SAAMI max which around 11,000psi in 12ga.

It's all in what powder is used and the other components used in the load as well.

OTC shells rarely have the chamber pressure listed on the shell box.

Vintage SxS shooters like to keep the loads in the under 8000psi range as a general rule. Some like them lower still, as I do.
There is no specific rule for all of this. The older guns have been around for a century and longer and most have likely digested plenty of OTC loads that were loaded to that SAAMI max pressures.
So there are a couple ways to look at it.

Lots of info on the subject on Doublegunshop.com
Forums for vintage shotguns and rifles. Mostly vintage SxS guns, reloading and the often argued Damascus vs Steel bbls.

Most OTC shells are loaded to Max standards or very near it to make sure the autoloaders out there work with them.
If they don't, the shells will quickly get a bad rap from the shooting/hunting crowd and their market rating falls.
They only have to go Bang in any manual op gun, so pressures are generally not an issue. But they are when Vintage guns are in play.
That is a small market and most ammo mfg'rs will put a warning on their products not to use in older guns not made for 'moden ammo', have it checked by a qualified gunsmith (what ever that is), etc.
Everyone is CYA around the issue. So the vintage gun shooters stay together and share their reloading info about loads and components and what commericially available low pressure shells are out there,,,and at what price.


The bbls marking deffinetly place the mfg of your shotgun with that ser# in the 1922 yr,
(The Marlin mfg shotgun with the same Ser# would be marked 'The L.C. Smith Gun Co'. No mention of Hunter Arms or Fulton NY.)

The 'I' marking on the gun indicates the 'Ideal' Grade

The 'LLH' is the Belgian Bbl maker that Hunter Arms Co sourced the bbl tubes from at the time , Laurent Lochet-Habran in Liege, Belgium.
You will find their mark on bbls used by other US mfg'rs as well such as Ithaca.
The Belgian bbl makers provided both Damascus & Steel bbls to the trade.

The 'London Steel' marking is just a marketing term. Each of the different grades of the shotguns had a specific 'grade name' for the bbl steel.
As the grade of the gun got higher/more expensive,,the grade name of the steel assigned to it also got more expensive & special sounding.
Probably all the same stuff.

Parker did the same thing. Each grade had a different 'steel grade ' for the bbls.
AH Fox did similar branding but only had a lower grade and a couple higher grade including imported Krupp Fluid Steel available for the best grade guns early on.

Hunter also got their bbl tubes from other Belgian makers as well like Delcour/Dupont in Liege
(Crown/D mark).
All the US shotgun makers got their Damascus tubes from Belgium.
Some higher grade Damascus & Steel tubes were imported from England such as Whitworth fluid compressed Steel.
Parker made Whitworth available on their highest grades

I believe Lefever Arms at one time was the only US Arms co said to have made their own Damascus shotgun bbls right here in the USA.
But I've also heard collectors challenge that. ,,I am not a collector, nor do I care one way or the other.

LCS are nice shotguns. They have a few quirks. They have a tendency to crack the butt stocks right behind the lock plates and also often at the rear of the top tang.
This from a number of things including the stock getting loose from the metal (wood shrink, loosened stock screws,, softened wood from oil soak, over lubeing,,things like that).

The design of the action does not allow for very much contact betw the frame and the head of the stock. So if the inlet contact becomes the least bit disconnected/loose, the frame can batter the wood upon firing or even just handling and the fine, trim stock starts to crack.

The lock up is generally tight though they can go 'off face' like any other.
They can be fixed like any other as well.
There is no super SxS that never loosens up dispite the marketing claims.

The LCS ejector system that was in use at that time is not too bad. If not messed with, it generally works fine. If it needs some help it's usually a good cleaning and perhaps the kicker sear edges cleaned up. Things like that.
Ejector systems, like Single Selective Triggers that have had someone get into them and try to make them better when there is really no need to do anything to them are ususally the ones that are a real pain to repair.

Some times problems with the latter are nothing more than the gun was taken apart and not put back together correctly, stock screws left a little loose or over tightened will make most of the older SSTrigger mechanisms not work correctly.
Double Triggers like you have are the best actually.
Plain and simple.
 
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