LEOSA: Qualifications and Covered Firearms

[Dvan34]

Wow! Confusing. Here in So. CA,Imperial County I qualify with a retired CHP officer as range officer. My card indicates only a check off for the caliber of gun used. The Date __- Example:
Caliber 38/357__ 9mm__ .40___ .45___ Other ____ (No type Semi-auto or revolver specified).
The RO's business card. Name___ Tele.___ Business Lic. ____
Next Qualification date ___ Fee Amount____
Can't get much simpler than that.
It appears that since the federal govt. set this up they should unify it.

 

[blues7]

The problem is that the federal government doesn't administer it as a program despite the law being federal.

Federal agencies don't qualify their retirees which is why those qualifying via local agencies must meet the standards for officers in their state of residence.

So, in my own particular case, I must meet the standards that the state DOJ sets for law enforcement in NC which requires both a day and simulated night qualification with the specific make / model of the firearm listed on the card issued by the DOJ.

Based upon the replies in this thread there is a great variance from one state to the next in both the qualification course as well as the firearms covered upon annual completion.

It's a pain but I personally don't foresee the federal government coming to the rescue and clarifying the issue anytime soon.

 

[Dvan34]

Concealed Carry for LEOs: Carry Where Prohibited FYI

Concealed Carry for LEOs; Part 2

 

[Teircel]

LEOSA is a Federal Law. It does allow a few state restrictions that are written into the law such as gun-free safety zones where carry is restricted. It does not allow states to define the type of firearm or ammunition you can carry. Those are specifically covered in the LEOSA statute so one state cannot require you to qualify with a revolver and a semi-automatic to carry each while another state does not. The question is what is the Federal definition of "type" of firearm. I will have to find it but I have read that the courts have ruled that "type" means handgun rather than a long gun. IF this is true that qualifying with any handgun qualifies with every handgun. Whatever the answer, it is the answer for every state.

 

[AZretired]

The LEOSA law does state that you must qualify to the LE standard of the state in which you live or the state in which you retired from. This said LE standards do vary quite a bit state to state.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

 

[Steve_in_PA]

The LEOSA law does state that you must qualify to the LE standard of the state in which you live or the state in which you retired from. This said LE standards do vary quite a bit state to state.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

Different states, different standards.

Some states only have one course of fire, such as for duty. But, others will also have another course of fire for off-duty (smaller handguns, shorter distances, etc.)

PA does not have a set duty course of fire. For duty, the COF must be at least 50 rounds, with 10% fired from the 25 yard line.

However, there is an allowance for off-duty or back up guns with the longest required distance being from 15 yards.

 

[Coyote56]

So...time to resurrect this thread. Seems Tennessee has amended their LEOSA policies. Now, they have decided that the "type" of firearm (auto or revolver) will suffice rather than having the firearm to be carried serial number specific. Yay!!
Still gonna charge a $10 service/processing fee to renew a LEOSA permit annually. Guess I can live with that. However....
The annual fingerprinting rule (at $40+ a year) is still on the books. Why?
Good question. Meeting last month with some people from Nashville who would know indicated it was because TBI (Tenn. Bureau of Investigation) were not too keen on giving Tennessee POST (Peace Officers Standards and Training) their own NCIC ternimal. No idea why..politics have a funny way of sneaking into such things. But many of us have met with State legislators and voiced our discontent over this issue. Hopefully it will change. For the time being, I don't fret over it. Tennessee CCW permits are good in about 37 states last I checked. Plus, I requalified in another state with the agency for which I used to work. So, I'm good there. And..
I shot the Tennessee courses last week. That allows me to apply for renewal under TN auspices if I like. But for $40? I'll pass for now.

 

[blues7]

NC gets $25 for the annual DOJ certification renewal. ($50 for the initial application following qualification with a certified departmental (or other DOJ certified range officer.)

No fingerprint requirement but they do ask for a copy of your LE identification along with the notarized document.

 

[ultra45]

For those who care, the LEOSA affirmative defense has been used successfully with long guns. Look no further than the infamous "Drew Petersom" wife killer ex cop case. Judge ruled his ownership of an SBR was covered under LEOSA. However, the judge admonished/ruled he should have had a tax stamp for the SBR, once he retired. He was Fo nd guilty of killing one or more of his ex's I believe.

 

[Rastoff]

Interesting read.

I know that qualifying can be expensive for some. What I've done in the past is very simple. To cover any possible issues, I just have them bring all the guns they might carry. Usually, this is two, maybe three. They bring themselves, guns and ammo and I'll provide the range time and instructor/RSO certification. I don't charge for my time or range time. LEOs have done us a great service and it's my pleasure to help them. A lunch at the local diner is always appreciated (wink, wink).

By doing it this way, the cost is minimal and they cover any confusion over what guns are necessary to use for qualification. For example, let's say they want to carry a Glock 19 and a S&W J frame. Bring both and qualify with both. Then if the agency requires a specific gun, they're covered. If they only require a type of gun, they're covered. If they only require a gun, they're covered and we had fun shooting a few guns.

I've only done this a couple times. Most around here do it with their original agency. None that I know of require night quals and the course of fire is super easy.

 

[WuzzFuzz]

Quote from the staff.

To ensure adequate staffing, we must have an accurate participation count. Unregistered walk-Ins will not be permitted.
]
• Retired Officers are allowed to qualify on one concealable firearm.
•["] ALL weapons must be brought in a case and unloaded, or in an approved holster.
• *** does not supply any ammunition for this Shoot. Retired Officers need to bring 50 rounds of practice ammunition per qualification attempt.
• Qualified Retired Officers will be required to sign an Injury or Accident Disclaimer.
• Retired Officers who have not had a background check within the past 5 years are required to complete a background check PRIOR to the Shoot.


Note, the last item....Yes we would be required to have a background check if not done in the last five years.....

HOWEVER, if one has a state issued permit to purchase a handgun, which must be conducted by a local law enforcement agency, (which are good for 3 years, cost $5.00) this will meet the requirement for a background check. This document must be provided at the time of qualification shoot.

As far as my LEO card for being issued to a "retired" officer, it is non expiring...It has our photo on it.( smiled, didn't have to be my grumpy old, grouchy look)

We are issued a second LEOSA card with our photo on it, with a expiration date 12 months from the date of our qualification.

There is no mention of whether we qualified with a semi-auto or revolver type of weapon...Only that we are allowed to conceal carry.

OH too...it's a freebe to us old codgers.... We only have to provide our own practice ammo.


WuzzFuzz

Sorry about the color change. I tried to correct that, but...well...you get the picture...Us old codgers are not the most computer savy.

 

[safearm]

Just finished my annual qualification with a local department, not the one I retired from. All I received was a sticker to go on the back of my retired LE ID card that states I passed the qualification on the date and the name/ID number of the rangemaster. No identification of weapon, serial number, caliber, etc.

 

[blues7]

Just finished my annual qualification with a local department, not the one I retired from. All I received was a sticker to go on the back of my retired LE ID card that states I passed the qualification on the date and the name/ID number of the rangemaster. No identification of weapon, serial number, caliber, etc.

I like that method. I wish more states would adopt it to streamline the process and make it less cumbersome.

 

[H47]

Re: Massachusetts and Connecticut...
I recently did my LEOSA qualification in Maine, have my retired creds and a qualification card issued by the Maine Criminal Justice Academy. I'm wondering if anybody here who is a non-resident of either Mass or Conn, who carries in either state under LEOSA, has had encounters with the authorities in either state, and how they went. Were the Leo's there cognizant of the law, for example, and were any "quirks" encountered that were peculiar to either state. My local police chief told me he had heard of people getting "hung up" there but he couldn't be more specific.

 

[The Big D]

Zero issues!

LEOSA qualified since 2005. Have traveled to Massachusetts and Connecticut regularly. ZERO issues...and that does include air and land travel.

In general, no matter where you travel you will encounter ZERO issues with professional LEO's.

Be safe.

 

[Muss Muggins]

LEOSA qualified since 2005. Have traveled to Massachusetts and Connecticut regularly. ZERO issues...and that does include air and land travel.

In general, no matter where you travel you will encounter ZERO issues with professional LEO's.

Be safe.

I don't want to belabor your answer, but have you ever met an LEO in MA or CT in an adverse situation where your ability to legally possess a concealed firearm may have been in question, or have you just never had to deal with it?

I've had ZERO issues everywhere I've been in the country, but then again, I've never had to discuss it with an LEO . . .

 

[The Big D]

Say what?

I cannot fathom an 'adverse' situation with professional law enforcement...anywhere.

That said, I had to display my credentials to a Massachusetts State Trooper whilst boarding a private aircraft at Logan in May.

I taught at UMASS/Amherst for more than twenty (20) years and regularly interacted with on duty Massachusetts LEO's in that capacity. More than a few of those years were whilst I was carrying pursuant to LEOSA.

All said, I simply cannot imagine an 'adverse' interaction with professional LEO's. For the record, I have carried a gun pursuant to LEOSA in at least twenty-five (25) states since retirement. I have become involved in activities in which I identified myself as a gun toting person on more than a few occasions. Nary an issue...ever...anywhere.

Hope that answers your somewhat puzzling question.

Be safe.

PS: re Connecticut, I usually commuted to UMASS via Bradley International Airport...in Connecticut.

 

[H47]

Big D et al.... Didn't mean to start a ruckus, and it wasn't I who implied anything adverse. I think you pretty well answered my question, that professional LEO'S have no problem with LEOSA. Several situations can occur in which LE "becomes aware" that one is armed, that don't amount to adversarial ones. Sorry if my question was puzzling, I was just wondering if anybody had experience with any.
Of course it is my hope that my firearm never is seen or questioned, and just as when I was working, I hope I never need to use it. Thanks for the responses.

 

[The Big D]

All good, H47...

...my comment re: 'puzzling question' was not directed to you.

I like to share my personal experiences with LEOSA and its practical application.

BTW, ispcapt is the true LEOSA expert herein.

Be safe.

QUOTE=H47;139784573]Big D et al.... Didn't mean to start a ruckus, and it wasn't I who implied anything adverse. ... Sorry if my question was puzzling, ...[/QUOTE]

 

[ultra45]

Ultra,

The NJ standard for ACTIVE officers is twice in a one year period, the requirement they post for RETIRED officers is from their own legislation for a state RPO carry permit. Furthermore, that qualification may not be accepted in other states as it differs somewhat from the active officer requirement.

Most retirees I know view it as applying to those who are still captives in NJ.

Forget active, we all know most departments qualify their personnel twice a year. I can see Jersy mandating 2x a year for a permit carrier, but if only qualifing for LEOSA it's once, no matter what Jersy says. Unless of course the retiree has a permit also. It's idiotic IMHO.

Sorry for the late reply, I kinda missed this thread...

 

[ultra45]

Improvements to LEOSA:

1) Allow Hi-capacity mags to those covered under LEOSA.
2) Clarify that only need to qual with either auto or revolver, not both.
3) Exempt those carrying under LEOSA from the Gun Free School Zone Act.

Notihing to clarify, why would you limit yourself to one or the other? If that's the case, just let one qualify period with no type.

 

[BE Mike]

I've had state licenses since I retired. First Texas and for the past 18 years, Indiana. I recently went through LEOSA qualification for the first time. The instructor said that the sheriff thought it was a good idea and considered anyone who passed, "Free backup for his officers!" We shot both semi-autos and revolvers and were required to pass the course with each one. We had to supply the serial numbers of the handguns, but were told we weren't restricted to them for carry. One thing I wonder about and I've heard through the rumor mill, is the average police officer is unaware of the LEOSA card and what it means.

 

[blues7]

I've had state licenses since I retired. First Texas and for the past 18 years, Indiana. I recently went through LEOSA qualification for the first time. The instructor said that the sheriff thought it was a good idea and considered anyone who passed, "Free backup for his officers!" We shot both semi-autos and revolvers and were required to pass the course with each one.

I've let our local sheriff and deputies know that if I can ever be of help I'm only too happy to be there for them.

Fortunately, our locals still consider us retirees as part of the fraternity and are only too happy to be there and arrange for our qualifications.

 

[JWM]

Did my second LEOSA qual a few weeks ago since retirement. I reside in SC and this state basically lets local LE administer the program. The feeling here is that it does not matter whether you qual revolver or semi auto. Good to go either way. They keep it simple; just fire the 30 round course, and see you next year. No extra training or classes. About a week letter, you get a letter from local PD on official letterhead that you got a qualifying score. Fold it up and tuck it into my retired creds.

 

[blues7]

Good to go for another year. Letter of thanks sent off to the county sheriff's office (again) for making the entire process as convenient and pleasant as possible.

 

[apollo99]

I'm due in a few weeks for my yearly qualification. Either the sheriff's department or the local PD will do it for me. I'd rather have the PD guy as the Sheriff's deputy makes me do push-ups and run around. I asked him why and he said that the slot time he had for me was always with the SWAT team. It seems that my year is up when their 6 month qualification is up. Lucky me. I also get to qualify with my AR-15 and sniper rifle at the same time.

 

[blues7]

They were doing AR's on the other side. I could've brought mine but didn't think to.

(At least I didn't have to do push-ups. Today's my day off from weight and cardio training during the week.)

 

[Weimar]

This has been the reason I have not done the LEOSA - as retired US Army Military Police, it was decided we fell under the act a number of years ago, and now all the services will give you a card. I moved last fall from PA to WA state and figure I will just get a CCW from WA, the advantage to getting the LEOSA is that Idaho is very close to my home.


Ed

My problem is with the annual qualification. The cost of range time, instructor time and ammunition all adds up. Everyone doesnt get it for free. Being retired I am on a fixed income. It's not that I cant qualify i was a certified police firearms instructor for over 30 years and developed courses of fire and trained thousands of officers. It's the pain in the *** that annual qualifications places on any officer particularly those who have moved or have been retired for a long time in my case over 20 years. Not only am I 1200 miles from my home state I dont know the local cops, chiefs(and I was one) sheriff etc to qualify locally. None of that is required for a state CCW which is good in most states and lasts seven years. While LEOSA has some benefits, too me its not worth the effort. Additionally I personally feel that if a ordinary citizen and there are millions can qualify for a multi-year CCW license with little or no training that license should be accepted as meeting LEOSA requirements for training. Present your retired identification and state CCW and you should be good to go. After all you had many years of firearms training and qualifications. So if a state issued CCW is good enough to give the average resident the right to carry it ought to be good enough for the retired officer. LEOSA needs to be changed to reflect that IMO. (But I know that is not going to happen)

 

[NCW Ray]

This has been the reason I have not done the LEOSA - as retired US Army Military Police, it was decided we fell under the act a number of years ago, and now all the services will give you a card. I moved last fall from PA to WA state and figure I will just get a CCW from WA, the advantage to getting the LEOSA is that Idaho is very close to my home.


Ed

You might double check but I believe Idaho honors your Wa CPL, so if that's the only other state your interested in carrying in, LEOSA certification wouldn't be required.

 

[Weimar]

You might double check but I believe Idaho honors your Wa CPL, so if that's the only other state your interested in carrying in, LEOSA certification wouldn't be required.

I saw that, it was Oregon I was thinking of (I was born in WA, but moved away after army retirement due to jobs, finally got back 'home")