License Check Point in N.C.

[YARDDOG]

at my old police dept at check points we just asked if they had a gun and if they did where was it and to keep there hands on the steering wheel.afetr making sure their OL was good we sent them on there way.we never wrote down a number.

+1 on that same as my older brothers agency ; )

 

[The Big D]

The man was licensed. But recording the serial number of the gun constitutes an illegal "taking" IMHO.

I would make a written complaint and demand that all record of the gun, make ,model and serial number be purged from all records and databases.

What, pray tell, is an "illegal 'taking?'"

Huh?

Be safe.

 

[The Big D]

I feel the LEO has no right/power to check the ser.# of the weapon.
As to the previous poster with the 'special file' for comments from the public he does'nt like, if we searched the homes and POVs of all LEOs we would find lot's of things of intrest to the public. Should we do this? Let's start with yours.
Comments welcome
Tom B

Feel free to drop by, Tom.

Be safe.

 

[MaximumLawman]

...when you're pulled over by a police officer for any reason, you are obligated to advise him if you have a Concealed Pistol License, and if you are carrying. It's up to him as to how things proceed from there.

Since all handguns are registered in Michigan, the officer may run the serial number to see if the gun is properly registered.

Michigan law is such that routine license, insurance, registration, and sobriety checks can be conducted any time.

A couple things...First, Michigan's CCW law does not state the police may take your gun to run or record the serial number. As far as taking the gun for "officer safety", an officer must have reasonable suspicion to believe a person is armed AND dangerous before he can conduct a Terry pat down, so I don't see how he can "automatically" relieve you of your gun on a regular traffic stop with no other justification to do so. The law isn't clear on that (yet). So as long as you advise the officer you're carrying, you've complied with the law. I wouldn't make a big deal out of turning the gun over if he asks for it, but there's nothing in the law that I know of that says you can be compelled to do so.

Third, you're absolutely wrong with regard to Michigan law and sobriety checkpoints. They are absolutely NOT allowed under Michigan law. Ironically, the US Supreme court case that legalized them federally was a Michigan case. After the Supremes said that they were legal, Michigan changed it's mind and said "Nope, not here." I believe it was MI V. Sitz.

 

[Jim_Macklin]

What, pray tell, is an "illegal 'taking?'"

Huh?

Be safe.

If the police do a traffic stop and seize your gun, that is illegal. That is an illegal taking. Similarly, collecting data or information that is not authorized by a specific law is an illegal taking of data that may be protected by another law.
Does the state require gun registration? If so, writing down the SN is authorized. But the NICS purchase [Brady] specifically does not allow retention of SN or names except when the check is failed and has become criminal.

Kansas, has no state gun registration and for the CCH [CCW] make, model or SN are NOT required. State law in Kansas allows an officer to "hold" a firearm during a stop if the officer feels it is advisable. In Kansas the law does not require that a CCH present or state they are licensed unless asked.
It is recommended [some states do require, getting one pattern is probably advisable].

But holding as gun for officer safety does not authorize taking data or making an illegal search. If you have a CCH and there is no other probable cause, why would an officer even want to see the gun, after all criminals carry guns a lot and have no license and commonly carry stolen weapons.

The stolen gun problem does exist and maybe a few lawful gun owners and licensed CCH might have a purchased a stolen gun, but doing a records check when no other cause except, "I can do it" constitutes creation of gun registration.

 

[HayesGreener]

I have been a law enforcement officer for nearly 40 years and have no problems with law abiding citizens lawfully carrying weapons. I don't really want to fan the fire but there is a huge difference between search and seizure and writing down something you see. And running a serial number through NCIC to see if a weapon is stolen is not a search and seizure. Anybody who ever had a gun stolen would appreciate the irony in the discussion here. Whether a stolen weapon found in such a manner could be used as evidence against someone depends upon the legality of the manner in which the officer came to view weapon. There's also a huge difference between what an officer must do on the street to remain safe and the legal requirements for search and seizure of evidence that will later be used against a person in prosecution. This is what the search and seizure case law is all about. Every situation is different, and the laws in different jurisdictions vary. To suggest an officer has no authority to take control of a weapon he knows is present to ensure his own safety or the safety of others while he is present is ludicrous. In most instances if you have a CCW the officer will simply say thanks and send you on your way. In some instances he does not know what he has and his training should tell him to err on the side of caution. That does not mean he necessarily has the authority to conduct a warrantless search for a weapon that may later be used as evidence against you-these are two entirely different concepts. One has to do with prosecuting you for a crime and the other has to do with the officer going home alive at the end of his shift. Certainly we should be able to grasp the subtleties if we are CCW.

 

[tops]

I have been a law enforcement officer for nearly 40 years and have no problems with law abiding citizens lawfully carrying weapons. I don't really want to fan the fire but there is a huge difference between search and seizure and writing down something you see. And running a serial number through NCIC to see if a weapon is stolen is not a search and seizure. Anybody who ever had a gun stolen would appreciate the irony in the discussion here. Whether a stolen weapon found in such a manner could be used as evidence against someone depends upon the legality of the manner in which the officer came to view weapon. There's also a huge difference between what an officer must do on the street to remain safe and the legal requirements for search and seizure of evidence that will later be used against a person in prosecution. This is what the search and seizure case law is all about. Every situation is different, and the laws in different jurisdictions vary. To suggest an officer has no authority to take control of a weapon he knows is present to ensure his own safety or the safety of others while he is present is ludicrous. In most instances if you have a CCW the officer will simply say thanks and send you on your way. In some instances he does not know what he has and his training should tell him to err on the side of caution. That does not mean he necessarily has the authority to conduct a warrantless search for a weapon that may later be used as evidence against you-these are two entirely different concepts. One has to do with prosecuting you for a crime and the other has to do with the officer going home alive at the end of his shift. Certainly we should be able to grasp the subtleties if we are CCW.

If a cop doing driver lic. check thinks that he has to take control of a pistol that a person who has a CCW permit has it tells me one of two things about the cop. Bear in mind that to have a CCW permit you have already been checked every way in the world to see if you are a good guy. One thing that might be the cops problem is he is scared to death and if he is that scared he needs another job. The second thing reason might be that he is an overbearing, arrogant bully that wants to show his authority. Larry

 

[TheGreatGonzo]

Bear in mind that to have a CCW permit you have already been checked every way in the world to see if you are a good guy.

Having a CCW permit does NOT insure that you are a "good guy". However, if you honetly, truly believe it does, then you must, in turn, honestly, truly believe that EVERY LEO is a "good guy", because LEO's go through a far more in-depth and stringent background check than does a CCW permit holder. So, your argument means, by default, every LEO is a "good guy". And yet, you say:

The second thing reason might be that he is an overbearing, arrogant bully that wants to show his authority. Larry

There seems to be a bit of a flaw in your reasoning.
Gonzo
PS - In my humble experience, neither having a CCW permit or a government issued badge automatically makes you a guy guy.

 

[CelticSire]

One thing that might be the cops problem is he is scared to death and if he is that scared he needs another job. Larry

Never stopped a car with 4 people inside it at 3 in the morning with your closest backup an hour away, have you?

 

[tops]

Never stopped a car with 4 people inside it at 3 in the morning with your closest backup an hour away, have you?

THE STOP WAS FOR A DRIVER LICENSE CHECK. IT WAS NOT A FELONY STOP. There are at least 2 police are standing in the road stopping every car and checking drivers license. With decent cops you hand them your license and CCW permit and if your drivers license is not expired they hand them back to you and say "have a nice day". You say "thank you sir" and go on your way. EVERYBODY IS HAPPY. WHAT IS SO HARD ABOUT THAT? Larry

 

[winter1857]

Went thru a chkpoint in Eastern NC about a couple of months ago. I handed the officer my DLicense & CHP permit. He said "Perfect" handed it back to me and away I went, the whole thing took about 10secs. Three weeks ago I got pulled over for not signaling a turn, again I handed the officer my Dlicense & CHP permit together. He asked me "Did I have a weapon in the car?" I said "Yes Sir" He said "Next time you make a turn to use that signal, Have a good night sir" I said " Thank You and you do the same."

I had the same situation outside of Ahoskie on Highway 13 over the 4th of July weekend. It was just dusky dark and they had set up a DUI stop. I was stone sober (19 months!) and I turned over my license and CCP and the young trooper looked me over and said "Thank you, Sir. Drive carefully". He handed my docs back over and I was on my way.

 

[mkk41]

I know of 2 incidents where legally armed citizens handed their loaded guns to an officer that said he would unload it and they ended up with holes in their cars.

 

[Faulkner]

As a LE firearms instructor I can confirm that young officers coming into a law enforcement career these days are not necessarily "gun guys" like in times past. Young people, by and large, are not taught about firearms through hunting and plinking like they used to be and therefore do not have a overall familiarization with firearms in general. I would say as much as 50% to 60% of LE officer candidates have little to no hands on experiance with firearms and we have to teach them from scratch.

With that said, I would not necessarily be comfortable handing over my 1911 or my Walther PPK if he/she was not familiar with it.

 

[samuelrp]

Just my opinion.............if an illegal concealed firearm is found the serial number should be run. But if a chp holder is legally carrying, I see no reason to touch the gun or run the number. I know it's done, just like running a plate, but not often.

 

[Lightfoot4]

Only time I’ve had an encounter while carrying was changing a flat tire on Hwy 1 South, just past Cary/Raleigh, NC. Had a county mounty roll up on me to help me out. I told him I was carrying concealed. He asked me to show him where it was (S&W 915, inside the pants holster), then asked to see my permit. After that, no problem. Helped me change the tire.

He looked all of twelve years old to me, so I’m figuring he was pretty new on the force.

Like others, I would be VERY nervous with anyone I don’t know handling one of my loaded firearms, even the police. When I lived in Seattle, a police officer accidentally shot out a sprinkler head at the gun range I went to.