M&P 9mm inherent accuracy problems?

turbo38gn said:
Looks pretty good, keep practicing and I'm sure you'll improve... :)
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Is the trigger that much different than every other gun out there though? I've shot a plethora of striker fired, DA/SA, SAO and DAO guns with better results. I'm going to call S&W Monday and see what they think acceptable accuracy is and what method they use to test for it. I benched it and took out most of the human part of the equation. A ransom rest is the only other way to test which I don't have. I get the same results with all 7 brands of ammo I've tried in it.
 
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Nakanokalronin said:
Is the trigger that much different than every other gun out there though? I've shot a plethora of striker fired, DA/SA, SAO and DAO guns with better results. I'm going to call S&W Monday and see what they think acceptable accuracy is and what method they use to test for it. I benched it and took out most of the human part of the equation. A ransom rest is the only other way to test which I don't have. I get the same results with all 7 brands of ammo I've tried in it.
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Triggers are different from brand to brand of striker fired pistols. Even between identical models as well sometimes. Try competition target shooter to shoot your gun at the range one day.
 
TxM&P9 said:
Triggers are different from brand to brand of striker fired pistols. Even between identical models as well sometimes. Try competition target shooter to shoot your gun at the range one day.
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Not sure who would be a competition shooter at my range by just looking at them. ;)

The thing is, I'm far from a new shooter having owned many many handguns in my time with different triggers. If I shoot SAO 1911s everyday for a month straight, it would only take me about 5-10 shots max to get right back into shooting a DA/SA gun. The trigger breaks well and the front sight does not move at all when dry firing so I'm not pulling it one way or the other. I'll check to see if any of the guys at my LGS does competition shooting to see what they can do. With my 1911s, Beretta 92s, and other pistols I own, I can easily get a 1"-2" group all day. If I bench them, it's one ragged hole. Fist time shooting a Glock had me shocked how accurate it was, and that first one was a G26.


Like I said, I'll see what is S&W finds acceptable. In the case of my FS M&P, it's at combat accuracy max.
 
There's another thread running about a lack of accuracy, at least in some examples.

Both have mentioned benching. Charlie Petty's noted in print that it's possible to blow groups with poor trigger control in a Ransom Rest. While testing new ammo earlier this spring, I inadvertently proved it's possible to blow groups from a benched rifle with artificial support at fore end and butt. I even re-bedded the rifle action before I realize the problem was the nut behind the trigger. A meeting with myself and a concentration on fundamentals, with a couple of changes in what I'd been doing solved the problem.

When we did our transition training I personally had issues with the M&P despite 25 years as an instructor. And yes, I tried other pistols while grumping about my inability to shoot good groups with the M&P. All it took was concentration on fundamentals with the M&P.

You note you've been shooting for quite awhile. Not to be insulting, but have you had a good shooting coach or instructor watch you while firing? Your last target seems to show several distinct groups, indicating that either you altered your grip or are changing your trigger stroke in some repeatable pattern.

Hope you get the issues resolved.
 
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I stated in the other thread that the M&P trigger must be perplexing and totally different than every other type of trigger out there since I shoot all others just fine. Most people complain about the M&P trigger and put in an extra $200 of Apex parts to bring it up to something shootable if it's indeed operator error. I know the Shield uses something a tad different but I had no problem getting my usual 1"-3" groups the entire time I was shooting the rental. Maybe that's why S&W is rumored to start putting the same system in the FS M&Ps....or at least everyone is hoping so.

ETA: Just finished rounding off the edges of the striker block which took away more of the slight grittiness so I guess I'll see if that does anything. Right now, it's smoother, lighter and has a shorter reset than other guns I can shoot tight groups with. There's only so much that can be done with the trigger before it becomes too light and it's time to troubleshoot the gun itself.
 
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Believe or not...

Nak,
Thanks for posting your targets. Your FS M&P experience is similiar to mine, and while I have a fair amount of experience, your seem to be even more experienced with a variety of handguns, expecially poly guns.

For those who want to keep encouraging us to practice more and find a more experienced shooter to test our guns... Well, I don't have an answer for you... Some of us our not satisfied with low accuracy, and know the difference.

Cw
 
cwallace said:
Nak,
Thanks for posting your targets. Your FS M&P experience is similiar to mine, and while I have a fair amount of experience, your seem to be even more experienced with a variety of handguns, expecially poly guns.

For those who want to keep encouraging us to practice more and find a more experienced shooter to test our guns... Well, I don't have an answer for you... Some of us our not satisfied with low accuracy, and know the difference.

Cw
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Sell it if it doesn't perform, the answer has been posted over and over from S&W.. it meets their specs for a combat weapon. If you want something for more accuracy ... buy something else. I own 5 M&P's, they shoot just fine for what I purchased them for.
 
I wasn't going to reply to this thread before so it wasn't resurrected, but since it is I'll post what I said in the other unlocking thread yesterday...

I just talked to S&W and the FS M&Ps in 9mm are expected to get 3" groups at 25 yards. They asked me what type of ammo I've tried and I told them 7 brands, 3 weights, +P and standard pressure and the guy was shocked when I told him it was getting a 10"-12" group at best at 15 yards.

I'm not bashing the M&P and those with the .40 and 45acp and most with the 9mm don't have this accuracy problem, but there are many that do. It feels perfect in the hand, almost no muzzle flip and the trigger with Apex sear and polished striker block breaks as nicely as my Dan Wesson Valor. There is something wrong with this particular M&P. I'm very far from being the only one but I'm guessing nobody wants to admit it and wants to blame me, not the very well known issue. Hopefully they put in a new barrel, slide, frame rail blocks or all of the above. The slide is also sloppy loose, much worse than any Glock (3) or XD (7) I've owned and the barrel unlocks very loosely when the slide is retracted a hair's width.

If the ergos and trigger didn't feel so perfect, I'd dump it immediately but I want this gun to work since it has all the characteristics I've been looking for in a poly pistol except for this sub-par accuracy. I won't revive this thread but I'll make a post about what S&W sends back.
 
Nakanokalronin said:
I just talked to S&W and the FS M&Ps in 9mm are expected to get 3" groups at 25 yards. They asked me what type of ammo I've tried and I told them 7 brands, 3 weights, +P and standard pressure and the guy was shocked when I told him it was getting a 10"-12" group at best at 15 yards.
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That is good to hear. Obviously that should prove that the gun is not performing to standard based on the S&W tech's surprise. I hope they set you up with everything to send it back and have it checked?

NAK - Do you have any friends or people locally that have a M&P and would be willing to meet at a range and swap a few parts to maybe troubleshoot the exact issue? Maybe try just a slide, springs, barrel, one by one for a few rounds? I am sure S&W would be interested to hear your results as would many people on the forums. I myself like to tinker and solve issues, so that is what I would try.
OR..
Does your local range have one you could rent and do an identical accuracy test with as further corroboration of the issue with your gun? Obviously if the rental with 10k rounds hold the 3" group @ 25yrds with the same test procedure you know yours is an anomoly and it is not a "shooter" issue.
 
lamrith said:
That is good to hear. Obviously that should prove that the gun is not performing to standard based on the S&W tech's surprise. I hope they set you up with everything to send it back and have it checked?

NAK - Do you have any friends or people locally that have a M&P and would be willing to meet at a range and swap a few parts to maybe troubleshoot the exact issue? Maybe try just a slide, springs, barrel, one by one for a few rounds? I am sure S&W would be interested to hear your results as would many people on the forums. I myself like to tinker and solve issues, so that is what I would try.
OR..
Does your local range have one you could rent and do an identical accuracy test with as further corroboration of the issue with your gun? Obviously if the rental with 10k rounds hold the 3" group @ 25yrds with the same test procedure you know yours is an anomoly and it is not a "shooter" issue.
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Well my M&P is already on it's way back to S&W as of yesterday through my LGS. The tech on the phone wanted to send me a label but I told him I'd let the shop send it back. It's still free but this way it might expedite the process.

When I told the tech about the groups, his words were something like "How big is the group??" Me: "10"-12" at 15 yars" Tech: ".....yea there is defiantly something wrong if your getting those groups at 15 yards,you better send it in so we can take a look at it."

I don't know anyone with an M&P, but my local range has a rental M&P in 9mm I'm going to try out pretty soon. I have to admit that the Apex sear and the polish job I did on the striker block turned the pull and reset into one really nice trigger. The Shield I rented at the same shop gave me my usual groups at the same 15 yard distance. Heck, the Kimber Solo I had was giving me 2" groups at 15 yards and the grip on that thing was as slippery as it gets.

When I get my FS back, I'll post a new thread on what S&W did.
 
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recent experience

Hi guys - I'm new to the Forum and happy to contribute and learn. However I bought a brand new Pro Series 9MM a couple weeks ago and it shoots a silver dollar size group off a bench at 8 yards. I determined that sort of accuracy is a little lacking for Action Pistol and took it back to the dealer. They shot it and decided that they'd return my money after I complained about it. Not sure if they will sell it as a 'used' gun or send it back to S&W. The dealer is a big company.

It's probably ok accuracy for a defense gun, but for IDPA/USPSA/Steel Challenge, etc. platform, it's not a good starting point.

Yes - I realize that maybe a barrel change might fix it, but for 600+ dollars, it should shoot good out of the the box and anything over and above that is gravy and is refining a good thing to start with.

Not the case with this one.

Sad thing is that the Club 'Pro' tried it out - got the same results then embarrassingly, shot his tricked out Pro Series and guess what ------
----- got the same results.

So - a dollar size MOA at 7 - 8 yards really starts to open up at 15 yds+

OK - - another buddy of mine bought a regular M&P 9mm for his first action pistol gun - early this year. It shot terrible and didn't seem to have the requisite accuracy on steel plates at 30 yds. Fussed and fretted over it for weeks. He sent it back to S&W, and they put a new front sight on it. Same problem - not accurate at all. He shelved it and now shoots a XDM - it shoots like a hand-held laser gun. I will stick with Glock - even though I really like the grip angle on the M&P.

Oh - I shoot a Les Baer TR Special (changed grips) in IDPA CDP; Glock 34/35 Gen 3 in USPSA Production (and a Glock 24 in LIM10 starting this upcoming season if we can still shoot those kinds of games)

Those are the facts.:eek:

BTW - I have some brand new stuff I bought from Apex anticipating to use it to trick my M&P. Don't need it now and will sell cheap. I'll keep the plastic frame jig thing - it's pretty cool and works on my G-guns.

Chat? 703-309-4967
 
I guess I'm one of the lucky ones who got an accurate M&P 9mm. I've had mine about a year now and I'm very satisfied with the gun.

This weekend I shot my M&P 9 FS, a friends wife's M&P 9 FS, a 226 and a USP. My groups at 7 and 20 yards were very acceptable with all guns. I tried the borrowed M&P because I read that the trigger has been changed in the newer models, but I didn't feel it.

My M&P 9 FS is stock and over 2500 rounds.

To me, an inherent problem should be intrinsic to all of the guns. All I can say is I'm happy; I watch other M&P 9 Shooters at the range and they seem to be hitting good groups too. So, maybe they were lucky in the draw too.

I don't believe the accuracy issues are inherent. But, I can only go by my own experience.
 
I have shot cz 75's for a while and I know how accurate I can be at 25 yards, I expect the same from any gun.
Here is a very interesting link in regards to the new barrel design introduced in 2012 (apparently). Long story short, long range accuracy solved according to this, but I am not sure. It looks like sw has been changing the mp design over the years, small things and parts.

10-8 Performance: S&W M&P Barrels, An Informal Test
 
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Wow...lots to ponder here! I have a M&P-22 that I really enjoy shooting so I thought I'd get a M&P-9 to go along with it. Figured I'd check out the forums to get some advice first before purchasing the 9mm. At this point I don't know if surfing the forum was a good idea or not. There are so many contradictions swirling around the M&P-9 that it makes a persons head swim. I'm mainly getting the 9mm for home defense, not target competitions so it should be ok for that...right? Thanks everyone for all the research and reports from both sides. Hopefuly I'll be one of the guys that has good luck with shooting the M&P-9.
 
Firemandan, the problem didn't affect all guns, but it was real. Good news, however -- the problem has been solved. Make sure you're buying an M&P made during or after June 2012, and all will be well.
 
Not exactly. My 9 with a test fire date in 10/12 does not group better than 7 inches at 25 yards but is highly accurate at 15.
 
Thanks for the info IDescribe...I'll definatly make sure it's a late model gun then. I just returned home from running about 250 rounds through my M&P-22 and it worked flawless(even with the cheap Remington ammo). Makes me want a M&P-9 even more now!
 
There have been at least two different versions of barrels in production. The external differences are easy to see, but the internal differences involving the twist rate are less apparent.

I bought a 4 1/4" 9mm barrel from Brownells in March so I could convert my M&P40. The barrel I got looked suspicious, so I ordered another barrel from Midway in May that confirmed my suspicions.

The barrel that came from Brownells was an old style barrel, and when you look down the barrel you could see about 1/4 twist over the length of the barrel, which roughly equates to a twist rate of 1/18.

The newer style barrel that came from Midway had about 1/2 twist over the length of the barrel, which roughly equates to a 1/9 twist rate. I believe that a twist rate of 1/9 is more in line with the industry standard for 9mm barrels, and I suspect the change in twist rate may have been made to achieve more consistent accuracy with a wider variety of 9mm ammo.

Details of the old vs new 9mm barrels, including pictures looking down the barrel, can be found in the post linked below.

http://smith-wessonforum.com/smith-...duction-versions-fs-m-p-40sw-9mm-barrels.html

I guess that it's probably a good idea to confirm which barrel is installed if you're looking to purchase a 9mm M&P.
 
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