Model 27 in .38 Special?

[Aussie Bruce]

I have been offered what is described as a Model 27 (I haven't seen it yet) Serial No S147746 in .38 Special .
Leaving aside the fact that the serial number would suggest that it is a pre Model 27 I thought that model was only made in .357 magnum. Any help would be welcome.

 

[Alk8944]

If it has the extractor shroud, the caliber marking is .38 Special, and the top of the frame and rib is not checkered, then it is a .38-44 Outdoorsman, not a Model 27 or pre- anything. This and the Model 27 outwardly are identical with the caliber and checkering exceptions.

 

[calmex]

Very common here in Mexico to mount 6.5 inch Outdoorsman barrels onto Model 27's as the .357 is illegal. Check and see if the barrel-rib is grooved, rather than checkered. The Outdoorsman barrels are 6.5 inches in length. Maybe someone mounted one onto a 27 over there.

 

[murphydog]

Or, it is a .38/44 that has been rechambered to .357, and the previous owner decided it was an original .357. In this case the topstrap and barrel rib checkering would be the difference, as Alk8944 mentioned.

 

[A10]

Never say nrver, but it would be an odd one if its factory original. Pictures would sure help!

 

[DWalt]

Frame checkering would tell the tale. With that SN, it would be from sometime in 1955, therefore, necessarily an Outdoorsman or a pre-27 (assuming it has the adjustable rear sight). Will it chamber a .357 cartridge, and what is the barrel's caliber stamping?

 

[JSR III]

It is possible that the seller chambered or shoots .38 special in the Model 27 and therefore confused the .38 special as the guns caliber.

If the barrel is marked .38 special but it is model marked as a Model 27, then it is either a mis marked revolver or has had a barrel change.

Further investigation is needed.

 

[Aussie Bruce]

Thanks for all your help. The guy who is offering this gun for sale is not a S & W collector so I think it will turn out to be a 38/44 Outdoorsman . I will know when I see it

 

[RKmesa]

One other thought is that it it may be a 38/44 Outdoorsman barrel that has been fitted to a pre-28 Highway Patrolman. In which case there would be no checkering on the top strap... In that case as well, the mat bluing would be fairly consistent between the barrel and the frame.

We look forward to hearing/seeing more.

 

[Texas Star]

Keep us posted. This one is interesting.

Some countries, like Mexico and Brazil, allow .38's and not .357's, as Cal-Mex noted. It is theoretically possible that S&W made a Model 27 on special order in .38 for someone who couldn't own a .357.

But the odds are it is indeed a .38-44 or a barrel change.

Why order a .357 Magnum or M-27 in .38, when the .38-44 was available? To get the checkering on top and the S&W Bright Blue highly polished finish!

If I'd been in that situation, I think I'd see if S&W would just put the Bright Blue on an Outdoorsman for an extra fee.

 

[calmex]

If you could secure us a photo of the revolver, especially helpful if it's sort of from the top looking down, we'll be able to tell you what it is or isn't. I've seen all sorts of things done. There are people down here that can "erase" the old barrel marking without leaving a trace anything was ever erased and remark it -- using the correct font -- to say whatever is required.

It is uncanny how well they do this. One of my best friends is a local gunsmith -- easily as good as anyone I ever met and better than most -- who sort of specializes in this type of work. One day he phones me up:

My friend: "Calmex, I need your opinion on the price of the Model 67 S&W revolver a client is trying to sell me. He wants more than I think it's worth, I'm sending you a photo to your email."

Me: "Okay, amigo, I'm looking at the two photos you sent -- but that's not a Model 67. That's a Model 66."

My friend: "No, it's a Model 67, I'm holding it in my hand as we speak."

Me: "Yeah, fine, but that's a Model 66. It has the underlug under the barrel and a Model 67 does not. Also, the photo is good enough that I can see it has the longer cylinder as well."

My friend: "Look, I'm holding it here and.....man, this is good work! This is as good as anything I've ever done. Thanks, now I know why he's asking so much." ***CLICK*** BUZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ.

This photo here is a really nice Pre-Model 23 Outdoorsman (not transitional or anything) with a locally installed and marked 8 3/8 inch barrel that came off of a 27-2 that had a regular Model 23 barrel installed onto it. Markings on the longer barrel are so perfect you'd swear it had come from the factory that way -- except the Outdoorsman topstrap is grooved whereas the barrel remains checkered. No, it's not mine, but I liked it so much I got a photo of me taken with it.

 

[clang444]

Nice pic - I know it is off the subject, but are you by any chance left eye dominant?

 

[calmex]

Yes I am left-eye dominant. I generally shoot rifles and shotguns left-handed and pistols right handed. It has never bothered me, and there's enough of a difference in vision between my two eyes that shooting right-eye doesn't work for me except in extreme close-up.

 

[Gun 4 Fun]

Yes I am left-eye dominant. I generally shoot rifles and shotguns left-handed and pistols right handed. It has never bothered me, and there's enough of a difference in vision between my two eyes that shooting right-eye doesn't work for me except in extreme close-up.

How about a clear pic of the new stamp on the barrel? Any chance of that?

 

[calmex]

Not my gun, so I could only get that if I had a camera when it fell into my hands again. Also, asking to photograph the work on a something like this is risky. My access inside the Mexico Gun World is very good and I would not compromise it to post a photo that later on could cause me grief. I do have some others that I took shots of, but I wasn't trying to actually get the stamps so much as the guns themselves. Stamps are often moved forwards a bit to get away from the barrel taper -- when it's well done, on both sides. (Meaning both sides are redone so one stamp is not ahead of the other. Lesser quality work often only moves one stamp.)



Poor quality work leaves a flat spot. Good quality work does not but might be detectable to the trained eye. Excellent quality work -- and there's a bit of it around -- uses correct fonts and is pretty much undetectable unless you really know your model numbers.



I don't really make a study of this, and don't post much about it as it's more information than the other side actually needs. Suffice it to say that excellent quality work is visually undetectable, because at the end of the day for the people involved it's not a game.



Here's one I photographed laying on a table. I actually know where this one is, but it's tucked away and won't see the light of day much and it's not anyone in my group so I feel fine putting it up here. But I really don't regularly photograph this sort of thing. It's something we know about and see and admire with a silent pursing of the lips but don't discuss much outside of our group. It's serious stuff, and it speaks to the risk normal, brave people will take to own nicer things than slimey bureaucrats would allow them to have (because the bad-guys own whatever they want without regard to silly regulations). I would not want to compromise them because of something I posted, but at the same time an individual would be very innocent not to realize it goes on.



And that's enough on that.

 

[Aussie Bruce]

I have now seen the gun and it is a 38/44 Outdoorsman .It is not in bad condition for its age and has a 5" barrel but it does have K frame grips. Thanks for all your help

 

[Gun 4 Fun]

Are you going to buy it? I love 5" N frames.

 

[Texas Star]

Five-inch barrel? Outdoorsman? Sure it's not a .38-44 Heavy Duty? Are the sights fixed or adjustable?

The Outdoorsman normally has a 6.5-inch barrel. If it was cut down, was the work well done?

Can you own a.357 in Australia, or is it on the restricted/forbidden list?

 

[Texas Star]

Not my gun, so I could only get that if I had a camera when it fell into my hands again. Also, asking to photograph the work on a something like this is risky. My access inside the Mexico Gun World is very good and I would not compromise it to post a photo that later on could cause me grief. I do have some others that I took shots of, but I wasn't trying to actually get the stamps so much as the guns themselves. Stamps are often moved forwards a bit to get away from the barrel taper -- when it's well done, on both sides. (Meaning both sides are redone so one stamp is not ahead of the other. Lesser quality work often only moves one stamp.)

[URL="http://i1241.photobucket.com/albums/gg510/calmex007/Fer2.jpg"] [/URL]

Poor quality work leaves a flat spot. Good quality work does not but might be detectable to the trained eye. Excellent quality work -- and there's a bit of it around -- uses correct fonts and is pretty much undetectable unless you really know your model numbers.

[URL="http://i1241.photobucket.com/albums/gg510/calmex007/Fer1.jpg"] [/URL]

I don't really make a study of this, and don't post much about it as it's more information than the other side actually needs. Suffice it to say that excellent quality work is visually undetectable, because at the end of the day for the people involved it's not a game.

[URL="http://i1241.photobucket.com/albums/gg510/calmex007/a2823_zps398998e4.jpg"] [/URL]

Here's one I photographed laying on a table. I actually know where this one is, but it's tucked away and won't see the light of day much and it's not anyone in my group so I feel fine putting it up here. But I really don't regularly photograph this sort of thing. It's something we know about and see and admire with a silent pursing of the lips but don't discuss much outside of our group. It's serious stuff, and it speaks to the risk normal, brave people will take to own nicer things than slimey bureaucrats would allow them to have (because the bad-guys own whatever they want without regard to silly regulations). I would not want to compromise them because of something I posted, but at the same time an individual would be very innocent not to realize it goes on.

[URL="http://i1241.photobucket.com/albums/gg510/calmex007/a1915_zps7c3fa284.jpg"] [/URL]

And that's enough on that.

Cal-Mex-


That is just remarkable! Thanks for the pictures.