Model 38 question

[gubber7181]

Hi,
Iv been looking for a decent .38 for a while and found one today for a decent price. Says Mod 38 on it. It has the Pinned barrel so im guessing around 1980. had a little holster wear not to bad.
so I do plan to conceal carry it.
My question is, what would be a good recommended off the shelf ammo for an older snub nose? im sure the +P ammo is to much pressure, but i also want to make sure i get enough velocity that id get good penetration and still have the bullet do its part.
My cousin in NYC was with the NYPD he said they used lead hollow points. but I just want something that's safe as well.

 

[Model19man]

I would not hesitate to use + P ammo in a Model 38 - the alloy frame Model 12 and 37 are the ones I would be worried about.

 

[gubber7181]

I would not hesitate to use + P ammo in a Model 38 - the alloy frame Model 12 and 37 are the ones I would be worried about.

Thank's for your reply. That does make sense, I will be practicing with it at the range and I like to practice with the ammo I carry,
My cousin mentioned Winchester, He said that was the standard ammo they used.
Iv been reading 158gr is what they tend to shoot best with, but like any sidearm, I will have to try a few different brands to see which prints best.
I am aware a 2" barrel will not have the accuracy that a 4'-5' will have. My back up pistol for hunting here in FL is a 4" Ruger .357 loaded with buffalo bore hardcast.

 

[snuf]

Load it with plain old wadcutters and call it good.

 

[Alk8944]

Hi,
Iv been looking for a decent .38 for a while and found one today for a decent price. Says Mod 38 on it. It has the Pinned barrel so im guessing around 1980. had a little holster wear not to bad.
so I do plan to conceal carry it.
My question is, what would be a good recommended off the shelf ammo for an older snub nose? im sure the +P ammo is to much pressure, but i also want to make sure i get enough velocity that id get good penetration and still have the bullet do its part.
My cousin in NYC was with the NYPD he said they used lead hollow points. but I just want something that's safe as well.

First, any commercial .38 Special ammunition is acceptable for your gun. +P is not particularly high pressure, just higher than standard pressure by approximately 10%. There is no +P ammunition made by any major manufacturer that will do the slightest bit of harm to any steel framed S&W revolver.

Second, Age of firearms is relative and not an issue. Guns do not lose strength or functionality in any way as a result of age! Over the past ca. 75 years the steels used by S&W and the basic designs have not significantly changed. A gun made by S&W in 1950 is just as strong and capable, possibly more so, than any gun made just yesterday, so your gun is not OLD!

So far as +P ammunition is concerned the principal reason to not shoot it much is simply cost. The second reason is in small frame guns like your M-38 is recoil, +P can be painful to shoot if you are at all sensitive. For these two reasons alone it is prudent to shoot standard pressure loads, but +P will do no harm. Shoot all the standard loads you want and carry +P in the gun when you carry it for defensive purposes as it can be somewhat more effective.

Finally, there is absolutely no reason to shoot your carry ammunition for practice, this is a fallacy. Shoot ammunition of the same or close bullet weight as your carry ammo so that it will shoot to the same point-of-aim and feel like your carry ammo and save your money! A standard pressure .38 wad-cutter can be as effective for self defense as any jacketed hollow point premium ammunition. At legitimate ranges where use of deadly force can be justified, several feet to a few yards, group size and POI and POA mean absolutely nothing! I can guarantee that you will never feel the recoil, hear the gun go off, or even know how many rounds you fire if you ever need to use your gun defensively! Ask any of the former/current LEOs on the forum and they will tell you the same thing!

 

[robertrwalsh]

I am reminded of an incident that occurred in CA many years ago when the CHP still carried .357 revolvers. The officer involved happened to be a female and I don't know that that had anything to do with anything. She was recently out of the academy and was involved in a shots fired incident. All of the shooting they had done at the academy was with .38 special wadcutters. She opened up with her Highway Patrolman and full power .357 ammo, fired one shot and dumped the gun. She stated afterwards that she thought the gun had malfunctioned and blown up. There is something to be said for the notion of doing at least some of your serious practice with actual duty-carry ammo. I know I do that by the simple expedient of shooting up my actual carry ammo once per year, thereby rotating it. The ammo you actually carry on you will be the most beat-up ammo you own. That is the stuff that gets handled, slammed around during loading and unloading and rained on. It works for me. Your experience may vary.

 

[gubber7181]

I am reminded of an incident that occurred in CA many years ago when the CHP still carried .357 revolvers. The officer involved happened to be a female and I don't know that that had anything to do with anything. She was recently out of the academy and was involved in a shots fired incident. All of the shooting they had done at the academy was with .38 special wadcutters. She opened up with her Highway Patrolman and full power .357 ammo, fired one shot and dumped the gun. She stated afterwards that she thought the gun had malfunctioned and blown up. There is something to be said for the notion of doing at least some of your serious practice with actual duty-carry ammo. I know I do that by the simple expedient of shooting up my actual carry ammo once per year, thereby rotating it. The ammo you actually carry on you will be the most beat-up ammo you own. That is the stuff that gets handled, slammed around during loading and unloading and rained on. It works for me. Your experience may vary.

Sup buddy
Thanks for your reply. So I agree with what you said completely about the training thing. But at the same usually the cadets were really just taught how to use and qualify with there duty pistol.
And the departments would use wad cutters for because they print well. But yeah she should of been a little better prepared.
So the NYPD actually issued .357 till the mid 90s
Then they everyone out of the academy was issued autos well the peeps that had some time on the job were actually giving an option to keep the .357 or trade ln for an auto.
I remember when I was a kid seeing they all looked like the duke,
Big gunbelt with the revolver hanging down, speed loader pouch's in the front. Now all my buddys who are on the job are carrying the Glock 19s.
Anyway, I really just bought it cuz im a fan of the .38
I like the way it shoots, low recoil. And I just want something small for carry.
And this might sound dumb but Iv carried a few autos, my first handgun after I moved down from NYC was a shield 9.
Then I tried to do a colt commander yeahhh NO. Then a CZ 75
Great gun but a little to heavy for my use and printed through my shirt to much. And so here with the m38.
I will definitely be picking up an auto but for work the .38 will do nicely.

 

[Frailer]

I would not hesitate to use + P ammo in a Model 38 - the alloy frame Model 12 and 37 are the ones I would be worried about.

The Model 38 also has an alloy frame.

 

[gubber7181]

The Model 38 also has an alloy frame.

Are you sure thats an alloy frame?

 

[K Harris]

Yep, alloy frame. Wadcutters are the way to go with the older alloy j frames.

 

[bobsguns]

A standard pressure .38 wad-cutter can be as effective for self defense as any jacketed hollow point premium ammunition.

I'm going to politely disagree there.

As much as I love shooting wadcutters, no way would they be effective in (say) shooting through car door glass, metal doors of any type or some large (think FAT) thug intent on doing one harm.

Penetration is the name of the game with SD ammo, IMO. A super fat thug wearing a winter coat simply will not allow adaquate penetration with wadcutters.

My .o2

 

[SuperMan]

Model 38s are alloy...the same gun in steel is the Model 49...

Since the max "safe" velocity one is going to get out of a 2" .38 is well less than 900 fps, HPs of any kind are a waste...

I have a M38 and M649... The 649 gets Buffalo Bore +P 158 HP at 1050 fps from a 2". The M38 gets the Lost River .38 standard pressure wadcutters...

Bob

 

[bobsguns]

Thank's for your reply. That does make sense, I will be practicing with it at the range and I like to practice with the ammo I carry,

Hornady seems to be the Big Dog in SD ammo these days. They make a variety of bullet types as well as weights, so you can find which is most accurate to your specific gun. They also make ammo specific to snub nosed pistols.

It is a good idea to run at least a cylinder full of carry rds every time you hit the range. It'll remind you of the recoil & point-of-impact difference in your practice ammo versus carry ammo.

My .o2

 

[Retired W4]

Off the shelf? Well maybe many years ago, I've not shot any through my 38/49/649. Maybe some of our elder LEO's have experience with this stuff. Two totally different 200 grain bullets and Western called theirs the Super Police. I suppose I should run some through my old Bodyguards.

 

[Drm50]

No +P in the m38 and m37 old models. Standard 158gr 38sp will do fine.
I like the M38 because you can cock it without having completely exposed spur hammer.

 

[gubber7181]

So one thing I will state is im in Florida and even in the winter it doesn’t get cold enough for winter coats.
Im just looking for a standard load that wont cause stress or cracking. If wad cutters are the way to go im down.
This is only the second S&W iv owned, the other was a police trade in M15 I believe.

 

[erikpolcrack]

Model 38, alloy; Model 49, steel.

 

[Jim Watson]

My Model 38 gets the 135 gr Gold Dot Short Barrel. But it doesn't get many of them, it is +P. Practice is with whatever standard .38 is handy.

 

[Kanewpadle]

My opinion only.

Wadcutters are the way to go. Penetration is the name of the game. Expansion is a very distant second.

Handguns are incapable of causing a significant amount of hydrostatic shock, temporary or permanent wound cavity blah blah blah. If those things are desired, use a long gun.

Wadcutters are highly recommended by those in the know. People you never heard of that have studied or performed hundreds if not thousands of autopsies. They are experts in wound ballistics.

And it is highly unlikely that you will find yourself shooting through any type of hard or soft barrier.

If you carry spare ammo, carry hollow points. Wadcutters can be difficult to load quickly with a speed loader or speed strip. And yes, carry spare ammo.

Practice a lot. Use good judgement. Have a high level of situational awareness.

 

[robertrwalsh]

Shootings involving private citizens are very often substantially different than those involving cops. Cops deliberately go in harms way. Private citizens SHOULD avoid situations if possible. Very few private citizens are going to need to shoot thru safety glass or a car door in self defense. Rather more cops might need to in order to apprehend a suspect. You can always come up with that weird situation if you look hard enough or "what if" hard enough. You should, however, spend most of your training effort on what might reasonably occur. Cops have shot bad guys with a handgun at 100 yards successfully. You should not spend a ton of money or training time on this remote possibility. Shot placement is criteria number one. Adequate penetration is criteria number two. EVERYTHING ELSE is an almost academic criteria number three.