Model of 1905, 4th Change Target Value???

[22lrfan]

Spotted this one in a pawn shop today while out of town. They had no idea what it was other than it being a S&W. Took a few photos and looked it up in the SCSW after I got home. Looks like it went back to S&W at some point. Didn't get to pull the grips off to check for a date. All SN's match. Don't know if the grips are serial numbered. SCSW says the target models are worth a premium. It's priced at $399. I'll be back down there this Saturday. Wasn't sure whether to try and get it or pass. What do y'all think?

 

[Oscar Zulu]

Buy it, asap.

 

[merl67]

I would use the grips as a haggling point, and try to get them down a bit.

 

[murphydog]

If the bore/chambers/function check out, it is a very good deal. It was likely made in about 1924 but may not have shipped (sold) until later. Good luck in your decision.

 

[22hipower]

I always offer less but would pay $399 for that in a heart beat. Good luck.

Jeff
SWCA #1457

 

[rct269]

"What do y'all think?"

It appears what I think is at odds with the majority so far, but my first thought was to wonder why you'd want to spend your money on a gun like this? Tell you what----we can discuss that later if you choose to respond.

Another thought was a two part combination: The first was it appeared this thing's been rode hard and put up wet for it's entire life. The second was I wouldn't carry this home if it was given to me.

Ralph Tremaine

 

[red9]

I love M&P targets and have a hard time passing one up. But, at that price, this one would be an exception:
1. Overall condition
2. Refinished (factory not as bad)
3. Throwaway grips
4. Front sight replaced (or modified)

Bob

 

[glowe]

I get your gist Ralph, but you might be a tad severe about the condition of the gun. True target revolver collectors would not even buy this one for parts, but to someone who does not own a shooter 38 Target, might be appealing. There is just nothing you can do with that left stock and maybe the right one is OK?? If both are bad, replacing the stocks could cost you over $100.

This one has been back to the factory for something and in the old days, that usually included a factory refinish. I believe the factory would have also added target sights if the customer wanted them installed, so would not think it started life as a Target revolver until I saw the letter. I think I see a grooved trigger, which may also indicate a target model, but not sure?

Bottom line is a decent shooter grade standard 38 M&P from the 1920s is worth at least $300 unless it is really a beater, so you have to determine what the target accessories add to the value for you.

Only example I have of a 38 M&P Target near yours is my 482,XXX, 6" in 95%+/- original finish that shipped in Feb 1925. I paid $400 for the gun last year. If you are in no hurry and regularly watch lots of online auctions and visit lots of gunshops, you can find a bargain, but it may be quite a while before one shows up.

 

[OFT II]

I think that it should have the mushroom ejector rod, not the LERK. Maybe that is what it went back to the factory for.

 

[29aholic]

Like Gary said, be patient. I bought one a while back that was better for about the same money.

 

[Igiveup]

Hard around here to find anything for less than $400. That being said, the revolver does look like it was used hard and put away wet. From what the pictures show, looks like several little rust spots, logo looks like it was buffed some in a reblueing, but where are you going to find one like it for the price? If it is tight, buy it, knowing it has some issues, and use it.

 

[glowe]

I think that it should have the mushroom ejector rod, not the LERK. Maybe that is what it went back to the factory for.

Yes, that means that the gun was returned to the factory sometime between 1928 and 1947. Looking under the left stock will tell you month and year. I have a couple of S&Ws that have a later style knob than the vintage of the gun. Of course, that means that both the barrel was replaced, requiring a matching style knob.

 

[reddog81]

If it checks out mechanically I'd buy it for $300. In the $400 to $500 range you should be able to find one in much better condition.

 

[paplinker]

Looking at the extractor rod it might have a replaced bbl. Seems it might originally had the mushroom shaped rod tip?

Not that a bbl replacement is bad if done well.

Just notice that was posted already

 

[jms948]

So what is the "real" downside here? Just buy it, shoot it, and enjoy it. Besides, you'll probably be able to get it for three and four bits.

 

[Waveski]

I do not shy away from a worn finish ; I own several old and worn Smiths.
That one , however ... by my evaluation there are just too many things in the bad column. Compromised grips , looks like re-blued over pitting , pitted hammer and trigger , front sight that looks like something from a British conversion , barrel questions ... and I haven't seen the fit of the side plate.
I could overlook 1 or 2 such issues , tolerate a lot of honest wear , and be still interested - based on the desirability of a .38 target of that era , but the rap sheet associated with the subject revolver is too much.
The good in that one is gone. Pass , even at a lower price.

 

[Hondo44]

If there's a diamond on the barrel flat following the serial #, the barrel and extractor rod have been factory replaced. If no diamond and the barrel serial # matches the butt #, it's the original barrel and ext but was made post 1927-mid 1928 but before 1930 if the grip # matches the butt #.

If the rear sight is not numbered on the bottom of the tang, it was added by the factory when it went back.

 

[22lrfan]

Thanks for all the replies and info. I'm more of an accumulator than collector. I buy 99% of mine at pawn shops. All of mine are shooter grade. I like anything old or oddball. In the past six weeks I've picked up an old model Ruger Blackhawk in .41 mag, an old model D-prefix Ruger Single Six, a Winchester 1873 SRC and a Win 62. I never pay asking price, pawns shops expect to negotiate on prices. I actually went to this pawn shop to look at an 1899 Colt SAA that I was told they had. Unfortunately they sold it the day before I got there. I was looking at this one as a shooter. I knew it had several issues. The grips are trashed. No idea why they put the hole in the bottom of them. It should have the mushroom ejector button. The barrel serial number does match the butt and I don't think it had a diamond after it. I'm going to pass on it unless they drop the price a significant amount. I am interested in taking the grips off to see what date is stamped on it.

 

[Hondo44]

It should have the mushroom ejector button. The barrel serial number does match the butt and I don't think it had a diamond after it. I am interested in taking the grips off to see what date is stamped on it.

Not necessarily! The barrel knob could very well be original.

• 1/22/27 change order to replace 'mushroom' extractor knob, with the ‘barrel’ style (with single milling cut under barrel).

So could the target rear sight be original.
The pin to retain front blade is original on all target models. The ramp front sight is likely original just filed to a ramp shape. If so, it'll have the last three digits of the butt serial #stamped on it and can easily be replaced with an original Patridge front sight blade.

Definitely try and get the re-work date on the left side grip frame near the toe, under the grip panel.

 

[glowe]

. . . Unfortunately they sold it the day before I got there. I was looking at this one as a shooter . . .

Those things happen. Stick with this Forum and you will be able to make better decisions in the future without hesitation!

As for the knob, I understand that it could maybe, possibly, be a long shot hold over until 1928 or later, but I have to give it a 90% chance that it had a replaced barrel. Given it was returned to the factory in the first place, the star tells us that. My Target was 5000 higher serial number than the OPs and it shipped in early 1925, so most likely the gun would have shipped between 1922 and 1925. The diamond under the barrel is not found close to the serial number and is very small, so could be easily overlooked in a preliminary inspection without a loop, but all academic at this point. Best of luck with your next find.