NAA 22 Thwarts Armed BLM Thugs

[ContinentalOp]

From a strictly legal standpoint this falls into the same category as that married attorney couple who pulled guns on the crowd in their gated community.

Maybe not. The protesters were armed. I think that changes the dynamic.

 

[mscampbell2734]

IF the protestors were armed that does change the dynamic. BUT the next questions is how were they armed? In the holster? Slung up long guns?

While it may seem nitpicky the law works that way. Just because subject A has a weapon in a holster and is being a jerk does not mean I can point a weapon at him.

 

[SchemaEnigma]

IF the protestors were armed that does change the dynamic. BUT the next questions is how were they armed? In the holster? Slung up long guns?

While it may seem nitpicky the law works that way. Just because subject A has a weapon in a holster and is being an ahole does not mean I can point a weapon at him.

According to the news report (and the police spokeswoman), "multiple armed protesters entered the restaurant property..."

Any reasonable person dining there would have felt in jeopardy of immediate serious injury or death.

 

[LDM]

Seems like the BLM thugs and Antifa punks perform their harassment campaigns in leftist-dominated cities where they know the local laws prevent law-abiding citizens from carrying the means for self-protection. One of these days they're going to foul up royally and try this where people have the freedom to protect themselves. Then they will be foisted on their own petard, as the saying goes.

 

[Drm50]

If I found out someone shot me with a .22 I'd be very annoyed!

Ok..it's better than using a butter knife.. for self defense..barely...

I've been shot with 22 and it's very annoying. It can annoy you to death very easily. Not what I would recommend for airborne assaults but will give good performance on most humans.
Let's get real. How many people that are not ex LEOs or gun nuts are going to carry a gun that is heavy, bulky and in the way. None.

 

[Pisgah]

Being overrun by an armed mob is not a threat of death or serious injury?
/QUOTE]

It needs to be recognized that a "threat" of harm is not necessarily going to be seen as justifying deadly force -- including showing/pointing a gun in some states. In the US in general it is the "reasonable man" doctrine that governs deadly force use in self defense: If a "reasonable man" would be certain that his life or the lives of innocent others were in imminent danger of death or grave bodily harm in the same circumstance, then self-defense may be raised as a defense. When a jury gets involved, there's a whole lotta room for interpretation even in cases that might seem at first clear cut.

Especially since I got my permit and began daily carry years ago, I keep in mind every day that my #1 self-defense weapon is my brain; #2 is my feet -- get the heck outta there is always the best solution, or better yet, don't go there in the first place; the gun comes in on down the list.

If the gun comes out, it'll be the last resort.

 

[PALADIN85020]

Maybe it's just me, but I would not like to get shot in the face with ANYTHING, even the pip-squeak NAA .22. One of these is always in my pocket, even when I'm carrying something way more potent. Ya never know when it will be just the ticket as a good excuse for someone to run from you. I change out the ammo once a month to be sure it will go "bang."

John

 

[SchemaEnigma]

Being overrun by an armed mob is not a threat of death or serious injury?

It needs to be recognized that a "threat" of harm is not necessarily going to be seen as justifying deadly force -- including showing/pointing a gun in some states. In the US in general it is the "reasonable man" doctrine that governs deadly force use in self defense: If a "reasonable man" would be certain that his life or the lives of innocent others were in imminent danger of death or grave bodily harm in the same circumstance, then self-defense may be raised as a defense. When a jury gets involved, there's a whole lotta room for interpretation even in cases that might seem at first clear cut.

Especially since I got my permit and began daily carry years ago, I keep in mind every day that my #1 self-defense weapon is my brain; #2 is my feet -- get the heck outta there is always the best solution, or better yet, don't go there in the first place; the gun comes in on down the list.

If the gun comes out, it'll be the last resort.

So, you're saying a "reasonable man" would not have felt his life was in imminent danger in the situation being discussed?

 

[HughD1]

My father worked with a man who was shot in the back of the leg as he was running away. 22 cut his femoral artery. He bled to death before they could get him to the hospital.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[waffles]

One hell of a thread title. Open carry is legal in KY, and without evidence that the protestors were threatening people with those guns, I've got a hard time applauding this guy for pulling his pistol on them.

I get a kick out of these kind of threads, when all the Blue Lives and other right wing protestors and "patriots" were doing armed demonstrations first the gun community calls it exercising their constitutional 2A rights, when groups they're not a fan of do it they're "armed thugs".

I'm also really surprised that these protests/counter protests haven't resulted in some real mass casualty events. For awhile it seemed like only one side was going to engage in the tactical gear and AR patriot cosplay, then the other side decided that they weren't going to be the ones unarmed, and with the level of vitriol going around between them I'm amazed that there's been that level of self control shown by (almost) everyone.

 

[SchemaEnigma]

One hell of a thread title. Open carry is legal in KY, and without evidence that the protestors were threatening people with those guns, I've got a hard time applauding this guy for pulling his pistol on them.

I get a kick out of these kind of threads, when all the Blue Lives and other right wing protestors and "patriots" were doing armed demonstrations first the gun community calls it exercising their constitutional 2A rights, when groups they're not a fan of do it they're "armed thugs".

I'm also really surprised that these protests/counter protests haven't resulted in some real mass casualty events. For awhile it seemed like only one side was going to engage in the tactical gear and AR patriot cosplay, then the other side decided that they weren't going to be the ones unarmed, and with the level of vitriol going around between them I'm amazed that there's been that level of self control shown by (almost) everyone.

These guys weren't marching down the street. They were entering a restaurant dining area and advancing on the dining patrons.

 

[dockmurgw]

I get a kick out of these kind of threads, when all the Blue Lives and other right wing protestors and "patriots" were doing armed demonstrations first the gun community calls it exercising their constitutional 2A rights, when groups they're not a fan of do it they're "armed thugs".

There is a major flaw with your argument. These armed thugs (feral kids if you prefer) swarmed a group of people minding their own business eating dinner, for no other reason than to harass, terrorize and intimidate. Your argument would have some legitimacy if you could cite where what you refer to as "Blue Lives and other right wing protestors and "patriots"" have done the same.

 

[waffles]

These guys weren't marching down the street. They were entering a restaurant dining area and advancing on the dining patrons.

The restaurant dining area on a sidewalk. Per the article posted in the OP, the protestors were marching northbound, entered the dining area (again, the sidewalk) and the confrontation began. From the video, which of course misses what I'm sure is some fun context, shows exactly one person pointing a gun at anybody, the man with the .22. Persons you disagree with also legally having a gun in a public place is not a valid draw reason, and I've yet to see anything that makes me think this guy was in the right.

The only smart person I saw in the video was the woman putting herself in between to get everybody continuing on. I think it's a bad idea to bring guns to protests due to exactly this type of thing, but still doesn't make me think the guy with the .22 was in the right either.

 

[SchemaEnigma]

The restaurant dining area on a sidewalk. Per the article posted in the OP, the protestors were marching northbound, entered the dining area (again, the sidewalk) and the confrontation began. From the video, which of course misses what I'm sure is some fun context, shows exactly one person pointing a gun at anybody, the man with the .22. Persons you disagree with also legally having a gun in a public place is not a valid draw reason, and I've yet to see anything that makes me think this guy was in the right.

The only smart person I saw in the video was the woman putting herself in between to get everybody continuing on. I think it's a bad idea to bring guns to protests due to exactly this type of thing, but still doesn't make me think the guy with the .22 was in the right either.

The police said, "during the encounter both patrons and protesters brandished firearms,"

The police said, "that multiple armed protesters entered the restaurant property, which included outdoor dining space,"

NB: "restaurant property", not public sidewalk.

 

[Miami_JBT]

The NAAs make great little Ears, Nose, and Throat guns. A .22 to the face still sucks.

 

[delcrossv]

I couldn't see from the video, did he even have it cocked?
All my NAA's (I have 2) are single action.

 

[lihpster]

I knew a guy who stopped a man from beating a woman in a parking lot. Got 2 .22's in his back for the trouble. He never walked again and was lucky to live. It turned out to be a Jennings auto. Quality of the firearm and caliber are moot points if you're hit in the right place. I for one will do everything I can to avoid getting shot with a .22. Actually I try to avoid anything that punctures my skin. Hell, I've heard rumors of a guy who killed 3 guys in a bar with a pencil. A pencil.

 

[waffles]

The police said, "during the encounter both patrons and protesters brandished firearms,"

The police said, "that multiple armed protesters entered the restaurant property, which included outdoor dining space,"

NB: "restaurant property", not public sidewalk.

The restaurant is open to the public. If you're getting into a trespass argument after being asked to leave, that's a fair point, but until that point they were fully allowed to be there, and armed.

I decided to dig to find a little more context. The Louisville subreddit had extra info, but take that with a grain of salt. Here's a video of the march (FB, but seems to work without a login) No Justice No Derby - Maxwell Mitchell

You see the LaChasse restaurant with the video patrons out front at 48 minutes and change in. Nobody is assaulting or accosting diners or other non-involved persons, then something gets their attention and some move back. According to redditors (again, take this with as much salt as you would for any anonymous internet poster), bald guy yelled something, and a verbal argument ensued. You can see in the videos of the specific incident the bald guy constantly making "come at me gestures" towards the individuals around him, and again, one person pointing a gun (though many involved, including one of the women trying to get people to leave and continue on, was armed).

What I do not see is a crazy group of people running into random restaurants assaulting diners and a brave man thwarting some catastrophe. I do see a bunch of people who really need to re-think how they conduct themselves while they are armed, both the diner and the marchers in the video.

Edit: I'd also note nobody caught a brandishing charge or other charge related to the incident, though four or five protestors did catch other charges that day.

 

[Thuer]

I am not aloud to carry those in the Netherlands. These are in my collection. The .22 short is due to fail. The .22lr is tumbling around. You can not hit anything with the .22 magnum. Still love them

 

[dockmurgw]

I do see a bunch of people who really need to re-think how they conduct themselves while they are armed, both the diner and the marchers in the video.

On this I agree 1001%