New Model 29 - is canted barrel "normal"

[Front Sight 357]

Hello everyone,

I purchased a new Smith and Wesson Model 29 classic a couple of months ago. I took it to the range this weekend to sight it in, and I noticed that the barrel is canted to the left a bit. That is, looking down the sights, the barrel leans to the left a bit, the ridge on top of the barrel and the front sight lean to the left.

I called Smith and Wesson customer service today and explained that the barrel leaned to the left, in order to send it back for a warranty repair.

The customer service rep told me "that is how they adjust them, it is supposed to be that way. They adjust them that way on purpose to adjust the point of impact."

What!? I am mostly a semi-auto guy, but this sounds wrong to me. I find it odd that a revolver may come out of production with a barrel canted to the left, on purpose. I was rather surprised at the response that it was supposed to be this way, so I am doing more research to determine if it is the truth, or if I need to call SW and get them to make good on this product.

Is this canted barrel normal and acceptable? Any suggestions?

I appreciate everyone's input on this, if they have a revolver with a canted barrel, is is supposed to be that way, etc.

Thank you,

 

[Sportsterguy]

I'm not a gunsmith but something sounds very wrong with the answer you were given by S&W. If they properly fitted the barrel to the frame it should line up straight.

Why would they put adjustable sights on the revolver if this were true? Sounds like BS IMO, but wait for the experts to chime in. Just did a quick check on a 586 and a 657 and no cant at all. Don't remember any of my revolvers having a canted barrel, but all are older models.

 

[Mule88]

I had a M-48 back in the 80's with a canted Bbl. It shot good so I didnt let it bother me. other than that gun, all my other Smiths the bbl's are aligned properly.

 

[s&wchad]

Yes, “canting” a barrel will cause shots to go in that direction. A good number of my revolvers (various brands) have barrels that don’t appear to be perfectly plumb to the frame, but they‘re on target with the rear sight close to center. The majority are canted left (viewed from the rear). If the rear sight had to be cranked all the way to regulate POI or if there wasn’t enough travel, I’d worry about it.

 

[WillyK]

I had a similar experience with my 681, I've had it for a while and never really noticed the barrel is canted to the right.
I called SDM Fabricating in Medina Oh. figuring hes a super pistol smith and he could fix it.
He explained to me the same thing Smith told you.
I never new that was how they did it!

 

[PA Reb]

Wow, this is all very interesting as I have never noticed anything like that on any S&W (or any other brand for that matter) that I hve owned over the years. The explanations provided above make sense but it would drive me crazy if I owned a weapon like this especially if it was "noticeable". I'm going to have to take a closer look at all my revolvers now!

 

[sceva]

With fixed sight revolvers there were two common ways to correct windage errors.

The quick way : bend the front sight blade - especially on the thin front sights like on single actions)

The harder way : turn the barrel slightly : harder to do but at least the sight was perpendicular to the barrel.

 

[TAROMAN]

None of my "older" S&Ws has a "canted" barrel.
Both a 681-0 I traded for and a new 21-4 were significantly canted to the left.
I paid S&W to fix the 681 and the 21-4 was fixed on their dime (it had several other significant problems that required a new barrel be fitted)

 

[scooter123]

There are basically two methods to zero the sighting on a revolver that uses a notch rear sight. Note, when I say "zero" it is with the assumption that the rear sight is perfectly centered on an adjustable rear sight.

Method one is to mount the barrel with that front sight perfectly straight up. After getting the barrel perfectly aligned the gun is then placed into a frame vise and the frame is bent slightly by smacking the barrel with a lead hammer. On a gun with a swingout cylinder the frame is weak enough around the barrel mounting point that it will give a bit and bend. On a gun like the SAA that has a fixed cylinder the result of doing this is likely to be a bent barrel.

Now, I may be wrong about this, but I believe that the second method was orignally developed to "get around" the issues with that robust barrel attachment point on the Single Action Army. The second method is to "clock" the front sight by tipping it the correct amount to get the windage correct.

Frankly, I rather prefer the concept of the second method. It may not be quite as pretty if you look really close but smacking the barrel with a lead hammer in order to bend the frame seems rather extreme to me.

BTW, I don't believe that S&W hand tests each individual gun to center the sights. It's likely that they have a chart that tells them how much to clock the barrel for a particular model and if it's close in the test firing it gets boxed up. With adjustable sights, close is plenty good enough to allow the owner to tune the sighting till it's perfect.

 

[TAROMAN]

BTW, I don't believe that S&W hand tests each individual gun to center the sights. It's likely that they have a chart that tells them how much to clock the barrel for a particular model and if it's close in the test firing it gets boxed up. With adjustable sights, close is plenty good enough to allow the owner to tune the sighting till it's perfect.

My 681 came back with a test target fired by "Vito" and a note that the barrel was adjusted to "within specification".

Shoots to POA now, so I'm satisfied.

 

[Front Sight 357]

Canting or turning barrel to adjust windage point of impact?

This is all new information and very interesting.

It sounds like this could be a fix that needs to be done, or it could be just fine the way it is. It sounds like a number of folks have revolvers that are canted, and shoot just fine.

Scooter, thank you for your long response. Very informative.

Asthetically I would prefer a barrel that is exactly straight. However, it sounds like a number of revolvers out that have a canted barrel and that is not a problem so long as the revolver shoots to point of aim. And I would hate to ship it to them, and have them somehow mess it up.

Anyone have more info on how barrels are canted at the factory to adjust for windage, if it is normal?

Suggestions on what to do next...

A Leave it as is, and adjust sights for windage to shoot to point of aim, and accept that a canted barrel is okay.
B Send it back and hope they can fix it (if it is indeed broken).

And more info or ideas?

I appreicate everyone's input.

Best Regards

 

[scooter123]

I would advise you to spend a bit of time shooting it from a benchrest to see if the sights will zero properly.

BTW, in benchrest shooting it's best to rest your hands on a sandbag, this will allow you to nearly duplicate your recoil management when shooting offhand. In addition, any revolver with a one piece barrel should always be shot with the barrel free of any contact with a support, supporting the barrel will impede it's "ring" and just destroy group size. The only exception to this rule are the 22 caliber revolvers, the barrel is so massive in relation to the power of the caliber that it's basically inert.

If you can get the sights to zero properly, there isn't any point in sending it in, S&W will only say it's within specification and send it back to you. As for the appearance, it's a HANDGUN, not some work of Art. It's meant to fire bullets accuratey, not become some object that you spend all your time looking at.

Yeah, I find this quest for perfection a bit baffling at times. However, I suspect that somewhere out there someone is underneath their automobile waxing the exhaust system because they ran through a puddle and if they found the muffler cocked by 1/2 a degree they'd probably want to return the whole car. Bottomline, if it bother you that much, don't look at it, just go out and shoot the gun.

 

[2K7]

Not in my collection!

That is only one in a series of inspections I perform on any revolver I am looking at for a possible purchase. Over the years, I have passed on many beautiful revolvers just for this reason alone. Older Colt Detective Specials, Agent, etc were terrible for this issue.

I preferred the old S&W "pinned" barrels. Generally speaking, they were pretty much always aligned correctly with the frame and the front sight was indexed straight up and down.

This problem was also very common with the old single actions of days gone by but.............Sorry, just something I couldn't put up with.

 

[Genex]

I have been shooting for a long time. I have owned many S&W and Colt revolvers. I have never owned one that had a canted barrel. Maybe I have just been lucky but I would consider it abnormal. I would not buy a revolver if the barrel was noticeably canted. That's just me. -Gene

 

[aphelion]

The customer service rep told me "that is how they adjust them, it is supposed to be that way. They adjust them that way on purpose to adjust the point of impact."

Canted barrels from the factory have always been present. Less years ago, then more prevalent in the 70's and later. I used to see them frequently. In every case, the rear sight had to be adjusted quite a bit to one side or the other to compensate. Usually, the barrel wasn't turned up enough, but occasionally it would be turned too far. I corrected many of them, and preferred the ones that needed to be turned up more, for several reasons. Once corrected, the rear sight could always be used near the center of the adjustment range.

To me, a canted front sight was (and is) unacceptable. It is not a matter of "looks" or "appearance." A canted front sight has a negative effect on sight alignment and sight picture. The front sight needs to be vertical in order to have a parallel strip of light on either side of the front sight when looking through the rear. If you don't have that, precision is difficult. The top of the front sight won't be level either, and that is also a problem.

IMHO, the factory is giving the OP a snow job because they don't want to take the time and expense to do it right.

 

[SW357Addict]

Canted barrels from the factory have always been present. Less years ago, then more prevalent in the 70's and later. I used to see them frequently. In every case, the rear sight had to be adjusted quite a bit to one side or the other to compensate. Usually, the barrel wasn't turned up enough, but occasionally it would be turned too far. I corrected many of them, and preferred the ones that needed to be turned up more, for several reasons. Once corrected, the rear sight could always be used near the center of the adjustment range.

To me, a canted front sight was (and is) unacceptable. It is not a matter of "looks" or "appearance." A canted front sight has a negative effect on sight alignment and sight picture. The front sight needs to be vertical in order to have a parallel strip of light on either side of the front sight when looking through the rear. If you don't have that, precision is difficult. The top of the front sight won't be level either, and that is also a problem.

IMHO, the factory is giving the OP a snow job because they don't want to take the time and expense to do it right.

Thank you for stating exactly what I was thinking. Canting a barrel seems to be a cheap shortcut to fixing poor machining. How would you fix an older pinned and recessed revolver if the rear sight runs out of travel? You would need to fit a different barrel and retest. This is the correct way to do it.

This and many other reasons is why I won't buy a new S&W and have sold all but one of my modern Smiths.

 

[Retired W4]

It sounds like what the Chinese do with their AK's. I have bought several American rifles where the installed scope was canted. You can get it to shoot dead on at a particular range, but inside or beyond that specific distance it's off to where ever. It may not seem like a big deal at handgun distances, but accuracy is accuracy. BTW, I have gotten some great deals on guns where all I had to do is level the crosshairs. The owners had no idea why their gun would not shoot straight outside the zero range.

 

[gunboat57]

If you carefully fire the gun from a sandbag rest and have to adjust the rear sight off to one side to get it to zero then S&W did NOT adjust the barrel to zero the gun. Maybe have other people fire it too just to confirm the misalignment. The gun was designed to have the barrel rib centered on the frame and the front sight vertical. Minor adjustment is done with the rear sight when the front sight is vertical.
A canted front sight, especially on a revolver with a tall front sight like a model 29, just screams poor attention to critical details at assembly. Some might say it's on the same level as having wrinkles in your duct tape but personally I would correct or sell such a gun.

 

[steamloco76]

I feel S&W should step-up and fix their error. A model 29 is an expensive gun designed to be used for game hunting, silhouette shooting, target shooting and self defense. Such a gun requires sights that one can align with precision to present the correct sight picture. There is no way to get a correct sight picture when the front sight is leaning to one side. I'd expect something like this from a Llama Comanche or one of the latest Rossi's to slide out of Brazil, but it is a shame on an expensive S&W.

 

[Front Sight 357]

Thanks everyone,

The point about the front sight blade needing to be straight up is a big one. In my revolver, you can see it is canted to the left, and it not straight up. So even if you adjust for the windage with the rear sight, the front sight is still slanted.

I will be contacting S&W via their on-line warranty form to send this back and have them either fix the barrel or replace the revolver, whatever it takes.

For the price paid for a brand new revolver, it needs to be manufactured correctly and with a high degree of quality and workmanship.

If anyone has any suggestions on dealing with S&W warranty program, that would be welcomed.

-Best Regards