Pepper spray vs bear

[Frank237]

On the other current bear thread, on one of the web sites posted on it, advocated using bear spray to ward off bears, but then went on to say that in 56% of all maulings of humans by bears, bear spray was used. They did not list how often the usage of firearms failed in preventing loss of life & injury. So they admit that the spray failed more than one half of the time.

In the same thread, one guy who was attacked (the OP), chose to use his bear spray instead of his firearm & suffered serious injuries.

No one will know if he would have been able to drop the bear & stop the attack if he had wisely used his firearm instead of the spray... but this was another clear instance of the spray failing.

If he had relied on his handgun, he would have at least had a chance...like the game warden did who was forced to use his revolver to fight off & kill a bear they were relocating. The bear was killed by what appeared to be a S&W mod 66 .357 mag., while it was attacking the warden.

I'd rather take a chance on using a firearm than hoping that what's really nothing more than a large can of Mace will deter an animal bent on seriously harming me or those I am with.

I'd like to know how many who used bear spray, in the statistic you cited...employed it properly? I'd bet that saying you simply sprayed it....maybe into the wind, or when the bear was still too far away. Certainly skews the data.

And regarding the Montana FWP Warden who killed the bear with his issued M-66 four incher. He was very lucky. His first five shots (125 JHP's) did little damage...insufficient penetration. His last shot went in the lower jaw of the bear and into the spine IIRC.

 

[Mule Packer]

When out and about in the tall and un-cut.......

I take my chance encounters with bears serious.

In addition to a heavy loaded 44 revolver, I carry this short rifle

loaded 'for bear' with some heavy Barnes bullets. It's jest purty handy.
If my horse smells bear or I do, I just slide it out of the scabbard and carry it
across the swells of my saddle. He who doesn't respect a bear, may well end up in a fix for sure.

Very wisely said from someone who's been there, done that, and got the t-shirt.

 

[dben002]

About all I can say is that if you get close enough to a bear, black or brown, to use pepper spray you are a better man than I.

My hats off to you sir......

 

[ChattanoogaPhil]

After reading threads about .22s taking down 1,500lb man-eating grizzly bears, I'm expecting to see some interesting posts about pepper spray.

 

[Ed Fowler]

I feel that if those wardens had tied that bear trap down into the bed of the pickup it would not have been necessary to kill the bear and the warden would not have been injured.

 

[Ed Fowler]

It is pretty easy for humans to teach cub bears that humans are not fun to play with, but SPCA and Game and Fish would probably go nuts if they knew about it.

 

[da gimp]

I have no doubt that an angry bear can climb up into the bed of a truck if it wants to... yup the trap should have been secured to the bed... but a determined bear can do a lot... & I want firepower to help.. not just a big can of mace...

 

[chud333]

I had seen this last week as a friend forwarded it to me.

I would not consider this a testament as to how Bear spray helps
in any way shape or form. If you asked the guy who was attacked
if he'd rather have a gun or some spray the next time he runs into
a sow with cubs i'll bet he would opt for the gun.
He stated he saw them at 80 yards. That gives ample time to take
steady aim and possibly get off more than one shot as the Bear charges.

He was simply at the wrong place at the wrong time. Could have
happened to anybody. The difference is in how your prepare yourself
for just such an encounter. For ME it will not be with an aerosol can.


Chuck

 

[BearBio]

I had seen this last week as a friend forwarded it to me.

I would not consider this a testament as to how Bear spray helps
in any way shape or form. If you asked the guy who was attacked
if he'd rather have a gun or some spray the next time he runs into
a sow with cubs i'll bet he would opt for the gun.
He stated he saw them at 80 yards. That gives ample time to take
steady aim and possibly get off more than one shot as the Bear charges.

He was simply at the wrong place at the wrong time. Could have
happened to anybody. The difference is in how your prepare yourself
for just such an encounter. For ME it will not be with an aerosol can.


Chuck

In many places. shooting at 80 yards would be considered poaching and not defense of life.

 

[chud333]

If it's charging at 80 or 800 yards bud, i'll take my chances.

If you know Bears like you say you do then you know how
quickly a Bear can cover that distance.


Chuck

 

[leswad]

In many places. shooting at 80 yards would be considered poaching and not defense of life.

For some reason I think your job is bears?? If a grizzly can travel 30 mph, could he not cover 80 yards in 5 to 6 seconds? That is not much time if he is charging, right?

 

[model70hunter]

Bears, Mtn Lions, wolves and dog packs from town on holiday all are dangerous.

I love my pre 64 270's, I loved Jack O'Connors writing but for tiptoeing thru bear country I think a lever throwing some of Elmers Hard cast 500 grainers in an 1886 like Mule Packers or a Marlin guide gun is one I'd get before I headed for bear trails. Mule Packer no offense but I think I want a shotgun style pad on mine.

I have no doubt my 300's WBY and Win with some 220 grainers would do the trick but bolt guns are slow.

Walking in Bear country with a Pit Bull trained to heel would be my only reason for wanting one. But then it'd be my luck to get the DNA defective one that was a devout coward......

 

[shouldazagged]

If it's charging at 80 or 800 yards bud, i'll take my chances.

If you know Bears like you say you do then you know how
quickly a Bear can cover that distance.


Chuck

For the record, BearBio is a very seasoned and senior wildlife biologist. He knows bears very well indeed.

 

[BearBio]

For some reason I think your job is bears?? If a grizzly can travel 30 mph, could he not cover 80 yards in 5 to 6 seconds? That is not much time if he is charging, right?

FWIW: I have seen tapes of bears "cruisin" along at 35, then take off. I have also been (bluff) charged once, so I have a good idea of how fast a bear can run. BUT, running at 30 mph is different from starting at a dead stop!

A bear at 80 yards doesn't mean I am standing there with my mouth open! Yes, I'd have my defense (spray or gun) out and pointed, if not aimed!

I was at a meeting/seminar and "palled around" with a Canadian Forest Service Biologist for several days. He told me the most significant fact, in his opinion, was that most Canadian bear victims (deceased) had rifles on their shoulders!

Thanks for the compliments, Shouldazagged, but I broke both ankles about six years ago while goose-hunting. Then, in July, I broke my kneecap while fishing in Alaska. Since I am closer to 70 than 60, I don't get out in the field much (at least at work). Hope to work my way back into (easy) elk hunting and maybe train another short-hair when I retire in 3 more years.

 

[woodsltc]

He told me the most significant fact, in his opinion, was that most Canadian bear victims (deceased) had rifles on their shoulders!

Serious question .... in your opinion, do think this could be because most of those folks were hunting at the time?

That would just seem logical to me.

Don

 

[BearBio]

Serious question .... in your opinion, do think this could be because most of those folks were hunting at the time?

That would just seem logical to me.

Don

I really don't know. His area was Alberta. He had worked in BC, also. We did discuss that Canadians were restricted because of laws pertaining to handguns. I know, statistically, most Canadian fatal bear attacks are black bears, which would indicate predatory attacks.

Another thought/question.........would the bears recognize a rifle as a weapon and wait until it was slung? Crows will learn the difference between a rifle and a stick. Ground squirrels will use different calls for men with a gun rather than a man without.

 

[woodsltc]

I know, statistically, most Canadian fatal bear attacks are black bears, which would indicate predatory attacks.

Another thought/question.........would the bears recognize a rifle as a weapon and wait until it was slung? Crows will learn the difference between a rifle and a stick. Ground squirrels will use different calls for men with a gun rather than a man without.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think most US fatal bear attacks are black bears also.

In regards to bears recognizing a rifle as a weapon like crows....I don't know. I do know that crows are "very" intelligent and have much better eyesight than a bear.

Ground squirrels?? Seems that the tree squirrels can tell when I'm squirrel hunting as opposed to when I'm not.

However tree squirrels also seem to know when I'm deer hunting, even though I'm also carrying a rifle ..... those little rascals will come right-up to me. They also seem to take great pleasure in trying to sound like a deer....I'm convinced they are just "messing" with me.

Don

 

[Ed Fowler]

A good friend who traveled bear country a lot always had a short hair with him wearing a collar with tags that tinkled when he ran. He traveled a large circle around us. He loved to harass a bear by circling and barking, drove the bears nuts and they simply wanted out of there, the size of the bear did not seem to matter, although we did not see all the bears we think he was fooling with. Got to watch him three times.

What roll do you feel a dog could play when humans simply have a well trained dog with you in bear country? Has this been considered in the research?

 

[Mule Packer]

What roll do you feel a dog could play when humans simply have a well trained dog with you in bear country? Has this been considered in the research?

I haven't done any clinical or empirical research into this, but after packing into wilderness areas with a pack string for almost thirty years, I have formulated a couple of strong opinions.

First, I firmly believe that very few bears are really "on the prod" and want to mix it up with humans. Most of the encounters I've had were when we accidentally encountered them, and it seemed that the first thing they wanted to do was to avoid us.

Also, I should probably insert that those years that I was packing were in one of the most populated black bear areas in the lower forty-eight. It was exceptionally rare when we didn't run across at least one black bear during a pack trip.

Second, (and this seems to be the consensus with most of my fellow packers, too) a good yappy dog in camp seems to be one of the best bear deterrents that we have found over the years.

Most of the packers with whom I associated seemed to favor a stock dog of some sort, i.e. Border collies, Kelpies, Australian Blue Heelers, etc.....dogs that were athletic, intelligent, had plenty of guts, and weren't afraid to bark their heads off if a bear came into camp.

These little dogs would usually run ahead of the pack string when on the trail, making noise, leaving scent, etc.

Usually, if I happened to spot a bear in the distance, it was pretty obvious that he was well aware of the pack string coming down the trail and he was doing his best to put as much distance between us as possible.

Again, this is just my experience, so take it with the proverbial grain of salt.

 

[Ed Fowler]

Thank you Sir!