Grayfox, don't tease and run away. Enlighten us with your tales of lever action carbines….The answer you seek is lever guns.
Pistol caliber carbine
- Thread starter thebeamanater107
- Start date
M3Stuart
Member
I have a Rossi M92 in .38/.357 and highly recommend them.
Also, a Hi Point carbine in 9mm.
I have less cash in BOTH of these than one expensive revolver and both deliver very tight groups at 50 - 100 yards with open sights. The Hi Point, especially, is a real tack driver. I could never get that kind of accuracy with a handgun at that range. The bonus is they use the handgun ammo.
Also, a Hi Point carbine in 9mm.
I have less cash in BOTH of these than one expensive revolver and both deliver very tight groups at 50 - 100 yards with open sights. The Hi Point, especially, is a real tack driver. I could never get that kind of accuracy with a handgun at that range. The bonus is they use the handgun ammo.
I was dead set on buying a CX4 storm in 9mm, down to already buying some 30 round mags for it. When I got back to the states though I just couldn't bring myself to spend nearly 900 dollars on the thing. There are a number of good ARs out there now for less money with much more power and range than any 9x19mm carbine.
I was also on a Battlestar Galactica kick and that might explain me wanting a CX4 so bad! I've since returned all the mags to Beretta for a full refund (sweet!).
I would still love a PCC (pistol caliber carbine) that could use the same mags (and ammo) as my Glock 19. The Kel-Tec Sub 2000 comes to mind. I also LOVE how it can be folded in half and stores in a backpack. To me it is the perfect bug out bag type gun. Lightweight, ultra compact when folded, but it only takes a couple seconds to get it ready to fire and you can have up to 33 9mm +P hollowpoints on tap ready to rock and roll. Nothing to sneeze at.
Kel-Tec needs to stop bringing out all these cool new guns and instead they need to focus on making more of the models they already have. I don't recall EVER seeing a Sub 2000, either in a store or a gun show! They are truly coveted items, and if I can ever find one that takes 9mm Glock mags, I will make it mine!
I was also on a Battlestar Galactica kick and that might explain me wanting a CX4 so bad! I've since returned all the mags to Beretta for a full refund (sweet!).
I would still love a PCC (pistol caliber carbine) that could use the same mags (and ammo) as my Glock 19. The Kel-Tec Sub 2000 comes to mind. I also LOVE how it can be folded in half and stores in a backpack. To me it is the perfect bug out bag type gun. Lightweight, ultra compact when folded, but it only takes a couple seconds to get it ready to fire and you can have up to 33 9mm +P hollowpoints on tap ready to rock and roll. Nothing to sneeze at.
Kel-Tec needs to stop bringing out all these cool new guns and instead they need to focus on making more of the models they already have. I don't recall EVER seeing a Sub 2000, either in a store or a gun show! They are truly coveted items, and if I can ever find one that takes 9mm Glock mags, I will make it mine!
OP
thebeamanater107
US Veteran
I had a conversation just the other day with my room mate. What if glock made a PCC? I'd also like to see glock's version of a tactical rifle. It might not be an ar-15, but it would be reliable accurate and ugly, as all glocks are in my opinion.
And lastly, I've seen ar-15s chambered in 9mm that took glock magazines. I researched a comment from this thread and I believe it was 'just right carbine' brand
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Ohsheepdog
Member
I've owned both the CX4 and Sub 2000, both in 9mm. I love them both for what the are...cheap to shoot, reliable, light weight, easy to clean, good-to-go self defense carbines.
The Beretta is refined and very accurate with a cheap feeling trigger. I have several lefties in the family, so having the ability to switch the bolt handle and ejection port is great. The weight distribution is perfect.
The Kel-Tec Glock 19 model fits perfectly in a 15" lap top case with a 17rd mag in it and 2 33rd mags. It's accurate to 100 yards and gas a decent trigger. Be sure to try the cheekweld before you buy it, as the sights are VERY low on the gun & not everyone can get their head low enough to see the sights.
The Beretta is refined and very accurate with a cheap feeling trigger. I have several lefties in the family, so having the ability to switch the bolt handle and ejection port is great. The weight distribution is perfect.
The Kel-Tec Glock 19 model fits perfectly in a 15" lap top case with a 17rd mag in it and 2 33rd mags. It's accurate to 100 yards and gas a decent trigger. Be sure to try the cheekweld before you buy it, as the sights are VERY low on the gun & not everyone can get their head low enough to see the sights.
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mcmar
US Veteran
I have a carbine that is a real gas to shoot. It also is a great gun to trick out with allot of accessories. I had and change just to see how they may work on my other guns. It is the best of three worlds. Being a 9mm the ammo is just about the cheapest size around. It also is one of the most inexpensive carbines on the market. And, third, it has a unlimited lifetime warranty, And...on top of all of that, it is very accurate. Right now, I have 35 rounds on the gun so it's ready. Ladies and gents...it's a Hi-Point 995TS 9mm Carbine. I have fired over a 1000 rounds with it only one FTE.
I would attach photos, but for some reason I can't right now.
I would attach photos, but for some reason I can't right now.
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Ohsheepdog
Member
Mcmar, I'm glad your High Point works for you, but most of us haven't had the same experience. Broken extractors, frames or slides that fall apart while shooting or when they impact the ground, slides that follow fired rounds down range, the list goes on and on. Not to mention their "finish" has consisted of spray paint on the outside of the gun but none in the inside!
MY personal experience says they are unreliable and frequently dangerous to the shooter. If I needed a reliable carbine or handgun and couldn't afford a Glock, Sig, Springfield, etc, I'd spend another $100, buy a Kel-Tec and go home happy.
MY personal experience says they are unreliable and frequently dangerous to the shooter. If I needed a reliable carbine or handgun and couldn't afford a Glock, Sig, Springfield, etc, I'd spend another $100, buy a Kel-Tec and go home happy.
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mcmar
US Veteran
I honestly haven't of any of those things happening, however, a broken extractor can happen on any weapon, but "slides following fired rounds down range"? Just what personal experience are you taking about? Do you own a 995TS? I not only own a 995TS, but I also own a HP CF38, a M&P 9, and a M&P 15 to name a few. I guess it must be me with the Midus Touch as I have not had any problems with my firearms. Hell, it's not worth conversing more about this S***.
Ohsheepdog
Member
A student of mine had his H Point 9mm break while firing in a CCW class... the slide slammed the frame, flew off the gun & landed down range.
A local criminal used a 45 H Point in a robbery...it jammed after shooting the victim in the leg, so he pistol whipped the victim & the frame came apart in 5 pieces. I recovered several of the pieces at the scene.
I'm glad yours are reliable, but that doesn't mean all of them are.
A local criminal used a 45 H Point in a robbery...it jammed after shooting the victim in the leg, so he pistol whipped the victim & the frame came apart in 5 pieces. I recovered several of the pieces at the scene.
I'm glad yours are reliable, but that doesn't mean all of them are.
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Rick_A
Member
I briefly tried a carbine conversion for my 1911. I never really warmed up to it.
For something small and fun I'm building a 7" barreled AR-15 pistol. I have a 10.5" now. Smaller, louder, and more flames can only mean more fun.
For something small and fun I'm building a 7" barreled AR-15 pistol. I have a 10.5" now. Smaller, louder, and more flames can only mean more fun.
OP
thebeamanater107
US Veteran
Or just because one gun broke doesn't mean the name brand is bad. I'm not defending hi point, I'm just saying I take all the online reviews into account before buying something. The Stevens pump shotgun owned by savage for example. I found plenty of reviews saying the welds connecting the pump to the bolt broke, and others say no problems... So if I buy a Stevens shotgun there's a 50/50 chance that it'll break on me.
I won't mess with hi point, but if others have good experiences then it's all good and fine
the original point and click interface, by Smith and Wesson
Rick_A
Member
Now that we're on the topic, I've seen less issues with Hi-pizzles than the various grades of 1911's coming through the shop.
They either work or people don't care if they're broke.
I'm not implying there's anything wrong with 1911's (in fact that is my favorite firearm of any kind), but there are some complex parts interfaces that are not conducive to high volume production.
There's always a lot of anecdotal tales of HiPoints failing but I never hear of such things first hand.
There are those that use and neglect and improperly maintain guns, and such people will eventually ruin whatever they own.
They either work or people don't care if they're broke.
I'm not implying there's anything wrong with 1911's (in fact that is my favorite firearm of any kind), but there are some complex parts interfaces that are not conducive to high volume production.
There's always a lot of anecdotal tales of HiPoints failing but I never hear of such things first hand.
There are those that use and neglect and improperly maintain guns, and such people will eventually ruin whatever they own.
OP
thebeamanater107
US Veteran
I've seen the same great debate with cars. A friend of mine ruins or wrecks all her cars and she always picks what she thinks is best but the car is a total piece of trash in her opinion when she sends it to the junkyard. She hasn't noticed the pattern yet. So, I quit "helping" her fix her cars.
the original point and click interface, by Smith and Wesson
OP
thebeamanater107
US Veteran
But back towards my point in my thread....
Pistol caliber carbines and other fun guns, go!
the original point and click interface, by Smith and Wesson
Pistol caliber carbines and other fun guns, go!
the original point and click interface, by Smith and Wesson
Bullzaye
US Veteran
I have an older AR-15 9mm carbine. I've owned it the longest. After that I acquired a Feather AT-9, then a Kel-Tec SUB2000, and most recently a Norinco copy of an UZI. I also have a pair of M1 Carbines, which are "sort of", pistol caliber carbines.
They're all quite a bit of fun at the range. Of the female shooters I've had shoot them, the Feather and Kel-Tec have been most popular. The UZI works well, and is accurate...but it's a bit of a boat anchor.
Yes, the Kel-Tec's ability to use Glock mags (mine takes G19 or larger mags) is a real plus. The sights can be a bit awkward to get behind.
In general, pistol caliber carbines are quite fun to shoot, accurate out to at least 100 yards (perhaps even 150 or 200 yards), have very little recoil, can be fired relatively quickly and still be accurate, and are relatively inexpensive to shoot (at least in 9mm).
Tim
They're all quite a bit of fun at the range. Of the female shooters I've had shoot them, the Feather and Kel-Tec have been most popular. The UZI works well, and is accurate...but it's a bit of a boat anchor.
Yes, the Kel-Tec's ability to use Glock mags (mine takes G19 or larger mags) is a real plus. The sights can be a bit awkward to get behind.
In general, pistol caliber carbines are quite fun to shoot, accurate out to at least 100 yards (perhaps even 150 or 200 yards), have very little recoil, can be fired relatively quickly and still be accurate, and are relatively inexpensive to shoot (at least in 9mm).
Tim
Redneckabbott
Member
I'd LOVE to see S&W release a pistol cal. carbine! I settled for the sub2k in .40, wanted 9mm. I'm gonna eventually a pistol cal AR. That market is slim picking. Colt, CMMG, RRA, and Olympus are the few off the top of my head.
I was just about dead set on getting this same carbine, I even bough several 30 round 92FS mags to go with the gun, but when the time came I was cooled to the idea so shipped the mags back to Beretta who gave me a full refund no questions asked.
The Cx4 Storm gets stellar reviews though. If they were a little less expensive, I would still like to pick one up. I don't think you will go wrong with one these puppies. Stock her up with 30 round mags loaded with good JHP defensive loads and add a red dot optic and consider yourself well armed out to 200 yards or better!
DARN IT... NOW I WANT A CX4 STORM AGAIN!!!!
The Cx4 Storm gets stellar reviews though. If they were a little less expensive, I would still like to pick one up. I don't think you will go wrong with one these puppies. Stock her up with 30 round mags loaded with good JHP defensive loads and add a red dot optic and consider yourself well armed out to 200 yards or better!
DARN IT... NOW I WANT A CX4 STORM AGAIN!!!!
OP
thebeamanater107
US Veteran
I was just about dead set on getting this same carbine, I even bough several 30 round 92FS mags to go with the gun, but when the time came I was cooled to the idea so shipped the mags back to Beretta who gave me a full refund no questions asked.
The Cx4 Storm gets stellar reviews though. If they were a little less expensive, I would still like to pick one up. I don't think you will go wrong with one these puppies. Stock her up with 30 round mags loaded with good JHP defensive loads and add a red dot optic and consider yourself well armed out to 200 yards or better!
DARN IT... NOW I WANT A CX4 STORM AGAIN!!!!
The cx4 storm idea wore off on me too. Winter hit and my paychecks dropped, so gun related stuff stopped. Now that the snow melted (I'm a semi truck driver) and I'm moving around again, I'm redoing my list. First up is the ar10 in 308 or 7.62. After that I'm looking at a mini 14. The pistol caliber carbine, if I get one, is a long ways away.
But I did impulse buy a marlin model 60, a semi auto 22. It takes 2 screws to remove the stock so there's a good chance I'll put a bullpup kit on it and that will be my fun gun in the place of a PCC
the original point and click interface, by Smith & Wesson
Ohsheepdog
Member
RedneckAbbott, I had a local friend that builds ARs assemble a 7.5" 556 pistol for me. VERY accurate out to 150 yards, minimal recoil & noise thanks to the claymore muzzle adapter, & very light weight. It does everything my 9mm carbines did with rifle velocity & commonality with my other ARs.
I use a CMMG 22lr bolt kit in it for drills & plinking with the kids.
I use a CMMG 22lr bolt kit in it for drills & plinking with the kids.
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Over the years I have shot several different pistol calibre carbines, as well as several different pistol calibre submachine guns, and several lever action pistol calibre "rifles".
I owned a H&K Mod 94 for quite a while, and have owned 3 different 44 Mag rifles, a Ruger Deerstalker, a Marlin, and a Winchester Mod 94.
Here are some random thoughts:
They are indeed a LOT of fun to shoot. IF you get a quality one, they are very reliable. You gain a few to several hundred FPS in velocity.
You gain a lot in accuracy over a handgun. The H&K 94 was very accurate at 100 yards.
There is very little recoil. You can shoot them on many ranges that do not allow "real" rifle cartridges. Many times you can get one that takes the same magazines as your handgun...
I see only one main disadvantage. ie. IF you are going to carry a long gun, you might as well carry one that is chambered for at least the 223/5.56, which has more power and longer range and better long range accuracy than any pistol calibre carbine. [Note, I will adress the 44 Mag lever guns later].
But there are many times that you do not want, or need, or cannot, have the power of a "rifle" round.
I owned a H&K Mod 94 for quite a while, and have owned 3 different 44 Mag rifles, a Ruger Deerstalker, a Marlin, and a Winchester Mod 94.
Here are some random thoughts:
They are indeed a LOT of fun to shoot. IF you get a quality one, they are very reliable. You gain a few to several hundred FPS in velocity.
You gain a lot in accuracy over a handgun. The H&K 94 was very accurate at 100 yards.
There is very little recoil. You can shoot them on many ranges that do not allow "real" rifle cartridges. Many times you can get one that takes the same magazines as your handgun...
I see only one main disadvantage. ie. IF you are going to carry a long gun, you might as well carry one that is chambered for at least the 223/5.56, which has more power and longer range and better long range accuracy than any pistol calibre carbine. [Note, I will adress the 44 Mag lever guns later].
But there are many times that you do not want, or need, or cannot, have the power of a "rifle" round.
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