Replacement Casing Material?

[Sourdough]

A correspondent just sent a link to a story about a new material which is being touted as better than brass for cartridge casing material. This is the first I have heard of it, though some of the comments following the story seem to indicate it isn't the first time those writers have heard of it. Has anyone here heard of this "NAS3" casing technology?

Here's the story link:
Shooting Sports USA asks, “Goodbye Brass?” in Cover Article about Shell Shock’s NAS3 Casings

 

[reddog81]

I haven't heard of it before. I guess it could replace brass assuming everything the article says is true, but the linked article makes lots of claims and provides no support for many of those claims. I guess I'll believe it when I see it. It's kind off odd the article is 6 months old I haven't ever hear of it on any of the forums I visit on a regular basis.

 

[Alk8944]

Well, if you haven't heard of it you simply haven't been paying attention as it has been discussed on this forum previously.

It is a new (and that is questionable) technology, not a new material. It is simply a two-piece case using a stainless steel tube for the case body, and a turned aluminum head. In this case D) they appear to be riveted together, where earlier two-piece rifle cases were screwed together. Steel has been used for cartridge cases as has aluminum. As noted, two-piece cases are not new either!

While these cases are claimed to be re-loadable, they require a special die set that ejects the case from the sizer with a spring. This is necessary because trying to use conventional dies that pull the case from the sizer will damage the case and possibly even pull it apart leaving the steel body stuck in the sizer, even carbide!

My opinion, an idea whose time has not yet come, or possibly has already passed.

 

[Mike SC Hunter]

Ho-Hum.......I'll stick with brass.....Has worked well for 150 years or so....

 

[hdwhit]

Sourdough wrote:
Has anyone here heard of this "NAS3" casing technology?

Yes.

It is hybrid aluminum/steel case. Currently available to reloaders at the cost of about 10 cents per case or in loaded ammunition for about 32 cents per round (plus shipping) from any of a number of niche manufacturers. If you want to reload them, you will need special dies that cost about $100 and some additional add-ons if you want to run on a progressive press.

It's big selling points are long case life and ability to handle higher pressures than brass cases. Of course, whether the life of the case justifies 10 cents a case when fired brass is available for around 3 cents each (or often free if you have a range to pick up from) has yet to be seen. And whether the higher pressure capability of the brass will justify using it when the gun it is being shot in is probably still only proofed to SAAMI maximum pressure or +P pressure also remains to be seen.

This was introduced to the market in 2015 and the manufacturer is still only offering 9mm and has still not branched out into cases that could make better use of the higher pressure the design can handle like 40 S&W and 10mm. I don't know if that should be read as indicating that the market is not warming to the concept, the company is having trouble bringing other products to market or there are technical issues that haven't made it out to the public yet.

Certainly seems like something to keep an eye on, but in my opinion it certainly doesn't seem to have gained the traction in the market necessary to justify asking the question, "Goodbye Brass?"

 

[Sourdough]

Yes.

Certainly seems like something to keep an eye on, but in my opinion it certainly doesn't seem to have gained the traction in the market necessary to justify asking the question, "Goodbye Brass?"

Thanks for the input, folks. It seems to me this material may be of interest eventually, for shooters who are younger than I. If I needed to move to these casings it wouldn't trouble me a whole lot but it doesn't seem my stock of brass will 'wear out' before I die, and I already know that sort of loads to use with them.

 

[Wise_A]

It's big selling points are long case life and ability to handle higher pressures than brass cases.

...

And whether the higher pressure capability of the brass will justify using it when the gun it is being shot in is probably still only proofed to SAAMI maximum pressure or +P pressure also remains to be seen.

...

This was introduced to the market in 2015 and the manufacturer is still only offering 9mm and has still not branched out into cases that could make better use of the higher pressure the design can handle like 40 S&W and 10mm.

This is the part from the manufacturer that I find absolutely hilarious. We already have instances of .38 Spl and .45 ACP brass that's been shot so much, the headstamp's worn off. Why do we need anything that will last longer?

Brass cases already work fine at pressures up to 65,000 PSI. How can we justify needing anything stronger than that? It's already damn hard to build a gun that can handle that kind of pressure.

And how can a stronger case help a cartridge, anyway? The limiting factor is the gun, not the cartridge. It's not like if you have a really tough case, you can start banging Major 9 through an off-the-shelf pistol and expect it to maintain the same 30,000 - 75,000 round service life.

 

[Fishslayer]

A brief perusal of their website makes me certain that I am nowhere near tacticool operator enough for their gear.

+/- 3 FPS?

Guess I need to stick to brass.

 

[Wise_A]

Outperforms nickel-plated brass on every level

Well gee, guys, if that's your metric for success.

 

[JBnTx]

I guess I'll just have to buy a lifetime supply of brass......

 

[Mike SC Hunter]

I guess I'll just have to buy a lifetime supply of brass......

I almost have a lifetime supply of brass..........

 

[LoboGunLeather]

Lifetime supply? I am still using .30-06 cases from Frankford Arsenal with 1938 headstamps. Also have a couple of thousand .38 Specials with RA 64 headstamp (Remington Arms 1964). In .30 Carbine I have had continuing satisfactory performance from LC 54 (Lake City 1958) brass. Just about all of my .308 Winchester brass started out as GI 7.62 NATO ammo in the 1960's. Still holding onto a 5-gallon bucket of GI 9mm brass headstamped 1967.

Just a few years ago I was given two 5-gallon buckets of once-fired .50BMG, all headstamped 1964. A couple of big bore enthusiasts were tickled to death to buy it from me for a buck per round.

How long are these lifetimes we are talking about?

 

[jake1945]

Blued steel, wood furniture (for guns) and brass cases. Works for me.

 

[Sourdough]

Lifetime supply? I am still using .30-06 cases from Frankford Arsenal with 1938 headstamps. Also have a couple of thousand .38 Specials with RA 64 headstamp (Remington Arms 1964).

Hey, question about that 1938 .30-06 brass. Did you have to pull the bullets and primers to avoid corrosive materials being cooked into the casings, or is that more precautionary than necessity? Long ago I picked up some 1942 rounds and started opening them with an impact bullet puller to remove the powder & primers. Destroyed two pullers and still have a few rounds with their original components. If the casings aren't really weakened by the corrosive primers and what-not, I'll go ahead and shoot the bullets out, then fully clean the rifle.

 

[StakeOut]

I've fired a lot of corrosive ammo years ago with no ill effect.Just clean the weapon thoroughly after shooting it.

 

[DWalt]

Does anyone remember Wanda shotgun shells? The cases were all plastic (polycarbonate, except for a thin metal reinforcing ring molded into the rim), and there was a lot of Hoopla back in the 1970s about them - the same claims made of their being cheaper, easier to reload, longer life, etc. The only problem was that not many shooters wanted them, and the company eventually folded from lack of business. They are now collectors' items. Old habits often die hard.

 

[hdwhit]

Wise A wrote:
This is the part from the manufacturer that I find absolutely hilarious. We already have instances of .38 Spl and .45 ACP brass that's been shot so much, the headstamp's worn off. Why do we need anything that will last longer?

That is a question for the individual customer to decide.

Brass cases already work fine at pressures up to 65,000 PSI.

Not in 9mm they don't.

How can we justify needing anything stronger than that?

First of all, the manufacturer doesn't have to justify anything to you. They have to justify the product's existence and its claimed advantages in the marketplace. But since you have decided to adopt the rhetoric of the anti-gun groups:

* How do you "justify" needing a magazine that holds more than 10 rounds?

* How do you "justify" bullets that travel 4,000 fps and can turn flesh into jell-o?

But since you ask for one, the "justification" of stronger cases could be that once they exist guns can then be built capable of the higher performance that can come from exploiting the higher pressures a more durable case permits.

It's already damn hard to build a gun that can handle that kind of pressure.

Not really. It's hard to design a gun that will hold a brass cartridge case together long enough to survive extreme pressures, but that's not the same as building a gun to handle higher pressures. Once you have a case that can withstand higher pressures, materials capable of higher pressures could easily be employed in making a stronger gun.

And how can a stronger case help a cartridge, anyway? The limiting factor is the gun, not the cartridge.

No, the limiting factor is the brass case. As temperature and pressures increase, the point at which the propellant gasses erode the case is easily reached. Let the stream of gasses get outside the cartridge and the gun will be damaged; possibly catastrophically.

It's not like if you have a really tough case, you can start banging Major 9 through an off-the-shelf pistol and expect it to maintain the same 30,000 - 75,000 round service life.

Nobody said anything about the service life of the pistol.

Nobody said anything about using the case at pressures higher than the gun was designed for.

 

[hdwhit]

DWalt wrote:
Old habits often die hard.

Agreed.

As do the prejudices of those in the marketplace.

The fact NAS3 hasn't branched out into other calibers; particularly 40 S&W which it seems could really showcase the advantages the manufacturer claims for the design, seems to me to suggest they are not enjoying enough acceptance to make them any more viable than the Wanda shells you mentioned or the old Gyrojet (both of which I remember quite well).

 

[scooter123]

There are several statements made in that article that trip my BS alarm into RED ALERT ! ! !. As in Danger Danger Danger Will Robinson you are being fed a line that is at least chest deep.

The biggest trigger was that claim of an ES in velocity of only 3 fps, from a pretty common 9mm load featuring Titegroup. If I ever saw an ES that small from my chronograph I would be checking the Chronograph. Because there are just too many variables involved in internal ballistics to produce the result that was claimed.

I also don't buy the claims for an unlimited case life. Because BOTH Stainless Steel and Aluminum Work Harden, so it's a certainty at some point the case will fail.

BTW, as was pointed out to me many many years ago CASES are what you stuff bullets and powder into. CASINGS are what you stuff SAUSAGE into. For me that is another tipoff that this "article" was written by a SALES HACK and not someone familiar with either Firearms or Reloading.

 

[DWalt]

I have a virtually limitless source of free brass for all the calibers I shoot, so I don't have much need for anything else, especially in 9mm which I have buckets full of already. And I can use the reloading dies I already have.