S&W M19 Classic fails in Hickock.45 demo

[TTSH]

I honestly believe that many people would be happy enough with a new Smith if it didn't have the frame lock. There are a lot of younger online bidders that want a Smith, but don't like the lock. Many of those people would gladly argue the benefits of the new Smiths if the eyesore frame lock weren't slapping them in the face every time they looked at their new revolver.

You are right, of course... there would be more buyers for certain... but I'm not sure I would be one of them. For me, it's more than just the lock. I won't get into it for fear of a forum violation. I'll just say that I prefer the older guns in every respect and leave it go at that.

 

[Ribwizzard]

What I find kind of funny, is that during what most consider the premium years for Smith's, the 70's, look at other American products produced at that time.
Almost every other American product, from cars, to TV,s, and everything in between, was notorious for bad engineering and poor workmanship. The imports were kicking our but and it wasnt until the 1990's before we started turning the tide by implementing modern manufacturing techniques. The American worker got fat and lazy and started taking drugs, and the unions .....well you understand where I am going with this....
Soooooo, with that said, and all the claims of skilled workers and hand fitted parts, ....how did Smith and Wesson find this outstanding, talented, dedicated, with attention to detail , workforce at a time no one else could?

 

[MN2944]

Soooooo, with that said, and all the claims of skilled workers and hand fitted parts, ....how did Smith and Wesson find this outstanding, talented, dedicated, with attention to detail , workforce at a time no one else could?

Because they were a relatively tiny company (compared to auto) making a product that was virtually unchanged for 30+ years. A Model 19 is really a very simple machine.

The auto industry, consumer electronics, etc, were trying to implement new technologies in the product, not just the means of production. That meant constant changes to the design. Many of those didn't work out and the quality suffered.

 

[TTSH]

Soooooo, with that said, and all the claims of skilled workers and hand fitted parts, ....how did Smith and Wesson find this outstanding, talented, dedicated, with attention to detail , workforce at a time no one else could?

Because they were a relatively tiny company (compared to auto) making a product that was virtually unchanged for 30+ years. A Model 19 is really a very simple machine.

One cannot overstate the importance of the fact that Smith & Wesson jobs at the time weren't just jobs... they were longtime and lifetime careers. But ownership changes and their managerial decisions did have consequences in regard to quality. We can see the effects of those changes when comparing guns from particular eras.

 

[one eye joe]

Smart move!

I AGREE ! ! !

 

[ladder13]

What I find kind of funny, is that during what most consider the premium years for Smith's, the 70's, look at other American products produced at that time.
Almost every other American product, from cars, to TV,s, and everything in between, was notorious for bad engineering and poor workmanship. The imports were kicking our but and it wasnt until the 1990's before we started turning the tide by implementing modern manufacturing techniques. The American worker got fat and lazy and started taking drugs, and the unions .....well you understand where I am going with this....
Soooooo, with that said, and all the claims of skilled workers and hand fitted parts, ....how did Smith and Wesson find this outstanding, talented, dedicated, with attention to detail , workforce at a time no one else could?

The heyday for S&W depends on who you ask and in what section of this forum.
Many would say nothing compares to pre war guns( I sort of agree), some would say post war before model numbers(I sort of agree). I've never hear anyone say Bangor Punta guns were the pinnacle, mid 60's to mid 80's. Rampant drug use during this period may have something to do with that
I doubt any manufacturer was immune during that time period, except for maybe military contractors and nuclear power plant operators.
All manufacturers of any product nowadays have issues, ask anyone who bought a $2000+ dishwasher or refrigerator in the past several years. My brother used to work for GE in Kentucky, the stories he could tell.
There are great cars coming off the assembly lines now, one of the positive manufacturing stories. Cars getting 30 mpg with 400+ hp with very low maintenance, as an example.
This is the heyday for automobiles imo.

 

[t4terrific]

You are right, of course... there would be more buyers for certain... but I'm not sure I would be one of them. For me, it's more than just the lock. I won't get into it for fear of a forum violation. I'll just say that I prefer the older guns in every respect and leave it go at that.

You are right. Not everybody, but there are a lot of people that after noticing the lock/pre-lock difference, suddenly find the new Smiths intolerable and therefore go on Gunbroker looking for older versions.

I tend toward either P&R Smiths or late pre-lock Smiths (depending on the gun).

Honestly, I would buy new Smiths too, if they simply eliminated the frame locks.

That would eventually lower the prices of true classics due to more satisfaction with modern models reducing some of the demand for old stuff. Old stuff has its drawbacks and many buyers would rather not take a chance on second-hand stuff (if they had a choice).

 

[CA Escapee]

The 68's still had the silly pin in the barrel and the pointlessly countersunk cylinders.

No thanks.

I'll stick to the newer, safer, more reliable S&W revolvers.

You mean those ones with the on/off switch on the left side?

Bill

 

[Mrnurse]

Nothing says quality like a life time warranty you'll use over and over with a product you stake your life on.

 

[shocker]

A reminder

This 1980 to the Present forum is a place for enthusiasts of S&W revolvers of this era to enjoy discussion of those products.

If you are not fond of these revolvers and prefer the older products, we have three other forums that cover those revolvers. You are invited to discuss them there as much as you want.
If you are one of the people who constantly enters threads ONLY to spew your hatred for the internal lock, MIM parts, or whatever you dislike about modern S&W revolvers, STOP doing it.

I'm not trying to tell you what to like.
I am telling you to leave the people who do like and use these products alone to enjoy them, and move along to a discussion about something you like. Just as we don't allow anti-gunners to come here and bash you and your guns, you don't need to be here bashing the modern products and making the owners of them feel inferior or stupid for using them.

I am not saying that you cannot post about a problem that you have personally had. Tell us about it. Give us the facts. But DON'T come here merely to tell us what you hate and will never buy.

 

[4530pop]

Can someone show me how to get to the "S&W Revolvers: 1980 to Present" section of this forum?
This doesn't seem to be it.

There are 99 people in the "S&W Revolvers: 1961 to 1980" and 400+ people in the section I would like to participate in.

I feel I'll just be ridiculed if I show off my 686 Plus or my 586 L Comp or my 19 Carry Comp here.

 

[4530pop]

Backslapping is fun.

Especially when your arms are long enough to do your own back.

 

[muddocktor]

I have to agree with you guys above about the haters of the lock. They seem to have a compulsion to post how and why they hate the lock on numerous threads here, and they are extremely lucky the Mods take a somewhat tolerant view, but it gets to be a bit much. Do I like the idea of the lock? Hell no, but it is a fact of life with the new guns and the lock can be disabled. I have 2 lock guns myself and one of them is one of my favorite shooters. That's my 627 Pro. It's trigger is every bit as nice as any of my other N frames and is accurate and has been trouble free. The other lock gun is a 60-15 that is my wife's protection gun for when I am at work and yes, it still has the lock installed and hasn't given a lick of problems. It is also a sweet shooting gun with 38 Specials but is a handful with 357 Mags in it. It is loaded with 110 grain Hornady 38 Special Critical Defense for my wife for when I am at the rig.

As for this Model 19 Classic, I don't see one in my future, but it isn't because of the 2 piece barrel or the lock. It's because I rather N frame guns.

 

[Andyd]

I have had several ammo induced failures in revolvers. It is a numbers game, if you shoot enough you will eventually have it. I had it in S&W, a Colt Python and my favorite Korth.
I had primer flow, where primers flowed back in factory ammo and a case head separation in PRVI Partizan factory .357 Magnum ammo. In these cases, the gun did not open and looking at it from the side will reveal the problem of either a sticking firing pin or something lodged in between forcing cone and cylinder.

When you reload cases over and over, eventually the primer pockets will also wear out enough to let the primer back out under recoil.

 

[t4terrific]

You mean those ones with the on/off switch on the left side?



Bill

If you put your finger in someone's barrel, it will backfire on them.

 

[ladder13]

while i've not bought, shot or handled any of the new classics, i'm sure they are, or can be, as good as any of the good old ones.
which would you rather spend $40k on-a new camaro or a good 1st generation one? to me the originals are better looking and feeling, although not nearly as "perfect" as the newer models. a new ss will mop the floor with an older one, but a genuine big block sucking through a holley 4 barrel will have more soul than anything computer controlled.
same diffence.

The only thing sucking thru a Holley, or Rochester 4 barrel(my vette had one), is fuel
This is the heyday for muscle cars, and I had a few big blocks back in the day.

 

[Birdgun]

Well, one thing for sure, it's not good for S&W have a new "classic" revolver lock up on a Hickok45 video. Hickok45 has a high reputation among shooters. Even if shooters don't watch the video, they'll hear about it. Any way you spin it, it's not good for S&W. Not good at all.

I also suspect this S&W Model 19 "Classic" video will be used at length in the great debate between semi-autos & revolvers.

Thanks for reading my comments.

God bless,
Birdgun