Shield .40 accuracy issues

[BadBrad1]

Picked a M&P Shield in .40 and took it to the range and holy cow I thought I had forgot how to aim and shoot!!

It was shooting 8-10 inchs left of point of aim at 20 ft. I drifted the front sight left.....way left and it is now hitting point of aim and actually groups quite well for a stubbie.

The only thing is the sight is so far left that the aim point is very far from the natural point of aim of the pistol. So much so that it is really annoying (to give you an idea how far off another 1/8 inch left and the base of the front sight will be even with the left edge of the slide).

Really kind of pisses me off as one of the big appeals of the gun was the great grip feel and natural point of aim. Now I pick it up and point it and need to un-naturally roll my wrist right to align the sights.

Guess what I would like to know is at what point will a manufacturer step up and fix something like this? Am I SOL because it can be brought "on paper" within the sights adjustment range?

What would cause this...bad barrel? Bad Slide? Is there anything I can check or adjust to help fix this issue?

 

[MP1SG]

Hi
How many rounds did you fire before you moved the sights? For me it took over 400 rounds to get that little weapon to where i like POA/POI.
Having shot larger weapons for years (Glock 19/23/26/27 M&P Full siza and a few 1911's). I found it much more difficult shooting a smaller weapon. I really had to concentrate on the sight and trigger control, Now my Shield 40 is accurate as hell. I do understand in a real life Gun fight (god forbid) It would be next to impossible to concentrate on sight alignment and trigger control. But those 400 + rounds allowed me to get enough practice in to where I can easily point shoot and be very accurate. So, having said all that, what it really comes down to is more rouinds down range alot of dry firing and then more rounds. YouTube "wall drills" by George Harris. He does a great demo on how mto dry fire while making sure you sight are aligned even at the moment the weapon discharges.
Hope this help's
1SG

 

[BadBrad1]

Well it has never been a grouping issue, it groups fine it was just consistantly off way left. This was from offhand and sitting behind a bench supported off a bag. I put about 50 rounds down range before I realized it's not me it's the sight alignment.

Bumped it over and have put about 150 rnds through it since then....groups great and I can eat the bull out of a target at 10 yds. So if it's some aiming or trigger error on my part I'm doing it pretty damn consistantly and only on this pistol....none of my other hanguns have needed such gross sight adjustment for me to put it on target.

I am confident I can hit what I'm shooting at with it just irritated that the natural point of aim is now so far off real world sight alignment....take your pistol line up your sights now move it left or right until the front sight is not visable at all...that is about how far off I have had to adjust for...much more then a minor sight alignment/sight picture problem.

 

[jh32589]

my rear sight is almost hanging off the edge of the slide, sending it in soon.
it shoots waaaaaaaay left!!

 

[TMAXXII]

my rear sight is almost hanging off the edge of the slide, sending it in soon.
it shoots waaaaaaaay left!!

Just curious, how did your rear sights end where they are? Did you get the gun that way? If you moved them, I would put them back, it was my understanding the rear sights are not adjustable, I would then adjust the front sight. I sent my back to install new sights seeing a local gunsmith damage both my Big Dot installing them and the factory ones when removing them. They replaced them for free, however the S&W guy said if they had to send it to there gunsmith it would take 10 weeks. Thank god my new ones are dead on. Good luck!

 

[BadBrad1]

my rear sight is almost hanging off the edge of the slide, sending it in soon.
it shoots waaaaaaaay left!!

Well I'm not alone in this I guess...need to contact them and see about fixing it I guess.

 

[robkarrob]

My Shield 40 has the rear sight to the far right. It shoots dead on POA in regards to windage. The elevation varies with different distances, as it should. The base of the sight is flush with the right side of the slide, but does not stick out beyond the side of the slide. There is only 1/32 inch room to move the sight to the left, before it would stick out beyond the left side of the slide.

So my Shield's rear sight has only 1/32 inch of movement, far left to far right. Unless you are having to move the sight beyond the edge of the slide, which your post indicated you were not, then I can't see the problem about the sight being a 1/32 inch left or right. Unless I am misunderstanding your posts. The important point is that the sights are aligned so POA and POI are the same.

Bob

 

[BadBrad1]

It is a serious annoyance as the natural Point of aim when you grip and point the gun is not anywhere near the point of impact....you have to induce gross adjustments from the natural point of aim on the gun to align the sights when they are adjusted so much away from the pistol center line.

 

[robkarrob]

Bad Brad1

How about a couple of photos to show how your sight(s) are aligned. A picture is worth 1000 words. These are photos of my 40's sight, which is aligned to the far right. My POA and POI are right on, in regards to windage. Yes my sight has been on and off many times and it is a little banged up. The rear sight can only be moved about 1/32 inch from the far left to the far right, before it will overhang the slide, as can be seen by the scale in the photos. This sight alignment to the far right does not cause me any aiming problems. Points very natural, to me.

Bob


left side, less than 1/32 inch from edge of sight to edge of slide.

right side, almost extending to edge of slide.

view from rear, can see the sight is "slightly offset".

 

[BadBrad1]

Here you go, this is how far I had to drift the front sight to get Point of impact to point of aim.

 

[jimNeb]

Here you go, this is how far I had to drift the front sight to get Point of impact to point of aim.

I was under the impression that windage adjustments were made with the rear sight. Did you give that a try?

You may find it takes a lot less movement.

 

[BadBrad1]

Page 26 Shield owners manual:

SIGHT ADJUSTMENT
WARNING: ENSURE YOUR FIREARM IS UNLOADED
BEFORE ADJUSTING YOUR SIGHTS. AT ALL TIMES FOLLOW
THE BASIC FIREARMS SAFETY RULES IN THE
SECTION ENTITLED “YOUR SAFETY RESPONSIBILITIES”.

• The rear sight is not adjustable. No attempt should be made
to move the rear sight on this model. Removal of the sight and
replacement should only be performed by a gunsmith who is
familiar with Smith & Wesson products.

• The front sight can be drifted left or
right to adjust windage.
Move the front sight in the opposite
direction that you wish the group to
move on target. For example, if the
group should move to the right, move
the front sight to the left (as viewed
from the rear). Use a brass drift or
punch to prevent marring the sight
when moving it.
FIGURE 43

 

[Hohopelli]

That wouldn't cut it for me. A more than noticeable offset in sights relative to slide warrants a trip to gunbroker for any such pistol that I get hold of. There's lots of pistols out there and money is only money.. JMO.. Ron

 

[BBS1]

Every OP should include his/her experience in shooting and what they shoot. Ive noticed that my shield shoots 6-8" to the left and low when I use the same POA as my m&p FS. Then I really concentrated on trigger control and didnt have to make any adjustments to the sight. The slim frame, though the same basic shape as other m&p's, requires practice to readjust for proper trigger squeeze.

 

[BadBrad1]

Every OP should include his/her experience in shooting and what they shoot. Ive noticed that my shield shoots 6-8" to the left and low when I use the same POA as my m&p FS. Then I really concentrated on trigger control and didnt have to make any adjustments to the sight. The slim frame, though the same basic shape as other m&p's, requires practice to readjust for proper trigger squeeze.

You should not have to change your POA to adjust your Point of impact pistol to pistol, especially in windage. Yes some guns, due to caliber, sights, barrel length etc. will shoot higher or lower then other pistols. For example when shooting at a target at a given distance: are the sights set up to cover the bullseye, or set up more for a 6 oclock lollipop sight picture to put the POI in the bull, but not with windage, windage should be dead on at pistol shooting distances.

Now if what you are saying is you are having trouble maintaining sight alignment or proper sight picture through your trigger pull then that is another thing all together, that has nothing to do with sight settings or POA POI issues ...that is a shooting technique issue. What it sounds like you are describing is someone who is not isolating their trigger finger motion from their grip and when squeezing the trigger they are tightening/clenching their hand, rolling their grip moving the pistol left. I am aware of this type of error and on guard for it, it's not what is happening.

If you read my posts you will see that the issue is present offhand, single handed, double handed, and double handed and shooting off a bag. Great groups, just way left prior to the sight adjustment.

As to shooting experience, I have had plenty of it from my youth through my USMC service, I know when it's me,when it's the gun/ammo combo or bad sight dope.

 

[BBS1]

You should not have to change your POA to adjust your Point of impact pistol to pistol, especially in windage. Yes some guns, due to caliber, sights, barrel length etc. will shoot higher or lower then other pistols. For example when shooting at a target at a given distance: are the sights set up to cover the bullseye, or set up more for a 6 oclock lollipop sight picture to put the POI in the bull, but not with windage, windage should be dead on at pistol shooting distances.

Now if what you are saying is you are having trouble maintaining sight alignment or proper sight picture through your trigger pull then that is another thing all together, that has nothing to do with sight settings or POA POI issues ...that is a shooting technique issue.

If you read my posts you will see that the issue is present offhand, single handed, double handed, and double handed and shooting off a bag. Great groups, just way left prior to the sight adjustment.

As to shooting experience, I have had plenty of it from my youth through my USMC service, I know when it's me,when it's the gun/ammo combo or bad sight dope.

Just saying you should put that information in there so people dont auto-reply with the "its the user" post

 

[jimNeb]

Based on all of the info you've posted, it's time to give Smith and Wesson a call. Get a shipping label and let them take care of it.

 

[robkarrob]

BadBrad1

My windage was off 4 inches at 15 yards on my new Shield 40. I used a sandbag rest and slow, precision trigger pulls, with a dead steady gun, to get my groupings. I drifted the rear sight only, that is why it was moved to the far right. A return to the range now produces dead center POI for my sight alignment.

Is your rear sight centered or offset. If offset, then movement of the rear sight might allow for the front sight to be centered. I agree your front sight is way too far off center. If an adjustment to the rear sight would not correct the problem, call S&W and demand they fix the sight alignment issue to what should be normal, close to centered both front and rear. That front sight, on your gun, would bother me. It is not natural and does not follow the centerline of the slide.

I thought the problem was with your rear sight. Your posted photo shows it was the front sight. The rear sight can be drifted. The problem is the set screw is red loctited in. Need to give the set screw a few seconds of heat, to get it to loosen. I use a propane torch with the slide upside down. Since heat rises this method allows less heat time to get the screw to loosen, about 4 seconds with the tip of the flame on the screw. Someone suggested to me, on one of my videos, that he uses a soldering iron to heat the screw. I've never tried that. It may work but could take a long time to get the screw hot enough to loosen the loctite. Once the set screw is loosened, the sight will move. The sight needs a lot of force to drift it, as it is machined pressed in. Tape up a punch, and turn it every blow to prevent metal to metal contact. I taped it but did not turn it, so I have minor nicks on the base of the sight. No problem as no one sees my carry gun and eventually replacements parts will be available from S&W.

Bob

 

[Sgormley]

I had same accuracy issues w shield

BadBrad,
I purchased a .40 as well. I first fired from about 30' and not one round hit the paper. Moved to 20', same thing. Moved to 10' and I was barely hitting the paper wide and to the left. Thinking that I was out of practice, I then shot my Sig 229 at 75' and put about 7-8 out of 10 rounds on the paper with more than a few hitting the round target. I just got rid of a Ruger LC9 to get the Shield and I know how hard it is to be accurate with such a small gun. There is definately something wrong with the sites. My thought is that S&W rushed to get this popular gun out the door so to speak and may have had some quality control issues. I love the night sites on the Sig and am considering just replacing the ones on the sheild. I will say that the shield kicks a lot less than the LC9 and therefore should be a bit more accurate. Does anyone feel that the shield is tough to rack as well? What did they do, put a car spring in there? LOL!

 

[team sidewinder]

It sure seems like with all the posts on both the shield 9 and 40 all shooting complaints are low and left. I know the shield is a easily concealed, close range SD weapon and not a target pistol. I am pretty much a point and shoot person at close range ( 20 feet or less ) so feel the shield will get the job done for me but would like it to shoot better using sights and POI. The grip on the shield is not exactly a handfull for me like my 229 is and I have small hands so wonder if that may be part of my problem. I can't imagine how someone with large hands can grip these small CCW pistols