Snubby Carry Load. 357 or 38 +P

[AZretired]

So...After all this, my question is. Just how many of you are willing to tote around your 2.5" L Frame snubby day to day just so you can say you carry magnums?

Personally a 135 gr. Gold Dot .357 at under a thousand fps in a 36-40 oz weapon does not impress me. However a Buffalo Bore 158 LSWC-HP+P at over 1000 FPS shot out of my 16 OZ 642 does impress me. AND I can carry the 642 all day and hardly notice it.

 

[3S16]

When I do carry a 2" Model 60, I load it with Buffalo Bore 158 gr LSWHP and don't feel undergunned.

 

[fdw]

My preferred round for my Ruger SP-101 is the Corbon DPX +P. I shoot it well and I believe it will do all I need it to.

I'm just not much on 357s out of this gun.

 

[gman51]

I quit carrying 357 mag in my snub for two reasons. The 357 going through the bad guy and possibly hitting someone else is one and second is you can just about bet you could end up deaf in at least the ear on your shooting side.
A 9mm is bad enough for causing hearing loss but a 357 you just about bet you will lose a large amount of hearing. I've had loss from the 9mm and I am no dang way wanting to experience a 357.
You say you will not notice the louder 357 in the case of a shooting don't even bet on that. A 38 spl or a +P will most likely save your life and you still could have more hearing left.
As far as the baseball bat I bet the lighter bat will still take the fight out of you. I've seen a big man knocked out by a 2x4 swung by a much lighter man. Little man or not the dude was flat out for the count on the ground.

 

[DevilDog72]

Well... for me and me alone... I carry the 135+P grn short barrel .38 in my 640nd and 158 gr sjhp 357 in my 19 and 66 snubs. I will worry about recoil and muzzle blast after the fight is over. All that said all reloads I carry are .38 +P 135 short barrel rounds because sometimes I carry both revolvers at the same time..... go figure......

Stay safe my friends.

 

[badge 851]

In both my 357 Magnum snubbies I carry Fiocchi® 357 Magnum 158gr XTP® (#357XTP25).

 

[BB57]

So...After all this, my question is. Just how many of you are willing to tote around your 2.5" L Frame snubby day to day just so you can say you carry magnums?

Personally a 135 gr. Gold Dot .357 at under a thousand fps in a 36-40 oz weapon does not impress me. However a Buffalo Bore 158 LSWC-HP+P at over 1000 FPS shot out of my 16 OZ 642 does impress me. AND I can carry the 642 all day and hardly notice it.

With a good belt and IWB holster I can carry a 2.5" Model 66 or Model 686 all day long, AND I can also shoot a Model 66 to 686 for 100 rounds or so of .357 Magnum without my hand feeling like it's been hammered on by an angry black smith.

I can't do that with even my steel frame 2 1/8" and 3" Model 60s, let alone a scandium J frame.

 

[smoothshooter]

Without Hesitation

I switched from carrying a Model 60 Chief's Special Target to the J-Magnum model 60 Chief's Special in the late 1990s just so I could carry 357 Magnum ammunition. The Remington 125 SJHP has been my favorite load for these revolvers for two decades now.

I have successfully qualified every time with the firearm over these years.
The amount of loss in velocity is an internet myth.

I gathered the average chronographed velocities obtained with 5 Smith and Wesson model 60s, 640s and a 340 all fired on the same day. Two five shot strings were obtained from each firearm. All ammunition was from the lot #

357 Magnum Winchester 125 JHP averaged 1205 FPS
357 Magnum Remington 125 SJHP averaged 1199 FPS
357 Magnum Remington 110 SJHP averaged 1230 FPS

It was interesting to notice that the 110 SJHP was faster than the 125s only in this instance.

These real world numbers are several hundred feet per second over what the manufacturers each claim for their 38 Special +P loadings

BTW, those averages include data from a factory ported model Performance Center 640. If I tossed that out and only included the non-ported snubbies, the averages go up about 10 FPS

No it is not fun to shoot, but these revolvers were not designed for plinking or a day of target shooting. These revolvers were designed to save your butt when you walked into something you did not expect. Under those conditions, I want the most power I can handle in the most comfortable package to carry.

Obviously 357 Magnum in a J-frame is not for everyone, and that is fine.

So let's step up to a 2 1/2" Model 19/66 K-frames, those velocities go up a little bit except with the 110. Only three revolvers were used to obtain these averages. We go to 1264 FPS, 1263 FPS and 1203 FPS respectively.

If we take this to a 3" barrel (1 Model 60 Pro and 1 F-comp) the Remington velocities go to 1290 FPS for the 125 SJHPs and 1243 FPS for the 110 SJHPs. Again the 110s are slower. I did not have enough of the Winchester left on hand for these revolvers.

OK going to 3 1/2" we have two N-frames (Both PC revolvers). Here the Remington velocities go to 1370 FPS for the 125 SJHPs and 1338 FPS for the 110 SJHPs. These did have tight B/C gaps that probably accounted for the higher velocities more than the extra 1/2" of barrel did. The Big N-frame, even with the short barrel, is much more pleasant to shoot than the smaller revolvers.

Sticking with the N-frame, I had two 4" model 27s. The Remington velocities go to 1391 FPS for the 125 SJHPs and 1321 FPS for the 110 SJHPs on these.

Taking this to the 5 1/2" Model 627 (sorry I only had one). The Remington velocities go to 1422 FPS for the 125 SJHPs and 1367 FPS for the 110 SJHPs on this one.

Now if you want the 357 Magnum to REALLY perform we can go to my 18" 1892 lever action. The Remington velocities go to 2049 FPS for the 125 SJHPs and 1727 FPS for the 110 SJHPs in this example.

I wish I had more ammunition and more real world guns to include in my study. However you can see that the loss in a 2" J-magnum is not as great as the Internet would like you to believe.

There would likely be more of a difference with heavier bullets and slower burning powders.

 

[Old cop]

Maybe I'm a wimp but @ 70, and carrying the no-lock 340PD, I find follow-up shots almost impossible w/full house .357 so I carry four rounds of +P and one round (last one) of .357.

 

[forrestinmathews]

One of the scant few standard pressure .38spl rounds that expanded reasonably well out of a 2" barrel in LuckyGunners tests was the new Winchester 130gr. "Train & Defend" JHP. This appears to be good stuff and is what I now carry in my 642 Airweight. Plus, it's available at Walmart.

Ranger and PDX loads both seem to expand better. Availability is king though.

 

[Fastbolt]

Maybe I'm a wimp but @ 70, and carrying the no-lock 340PD, I find follow-up shots almost impossible w/full house .357 so I carry four rounds of +P and one round (last one) of .357.

Who would think to call you a wimp?

If we were discussing this over cigars, between while standing out on the range comparing loads and controllability during drills, I'd probably suggest considering carrying all +P loads.

If you carry a speedloader/strip (or two), and think about the possibility of actually having to reload, why subject yourself to the sudden muzzle blast and wrist-stressing torque of that last Magnum round? If it might (I stress might) throw you off your stride in getting the snub emptied and loaded, there might be a questionable "benefit" to having that 5th round being a Magnum. (It might be an attention-getter, though, letting you know you've run the tank dry. )

Personally, I rather like being able to have the same felt recoil and expected controllability for the entire cylinder load.

Yes, I'm "giving up" a bit of added velocity by not using Magnum rounds in my pair of M&P 340's (which are even heavier and more controllable than your 340PD), but I'd rather be able to hammer out up to all 5 rounds as rapidly as possible.

No biggie, though. If you can put 2-5 fast and accurate rounds on your intended threat target, you're still likely to be head and shoulders above those handgun shooters who think that only a hi-cap ammo reserve is important.

 

[forrestinmathews]

I'm curious why the last round is a magnum. If the wolf is still growling at the door after four, what is the last one for? A black powder load so you can escape?
I severely doubt anybody feel recoil during the stress event.

 

[Fastbolt]

I'm curious why the last round is a magnum. If the wolf is still growling at the door after four, what is the last one for? A black powder load so you can escape?
I severely doubt anybody feel recoil during the stress event.

In earlier days, some folks used to talk about the last Magnum round being different letting them know when it was time to reload their revolver. (Which was more of a presumption and hope that they'd notice it when it happened.)

Having listened to my fair share of folks who have been involved in shootings, while they may not "feel recoil" during the stress of a dynamic situation, that doesn't mean that the actual recoil forces may not affect their shooting ability. They just aren't aware of it happening.

Much like not "hearing" the loud gunshot(s) doesn't mean your hearing still isn't being damaged.

"Sensory exclusion" only means your conscious mind isn't processing your senses in the same manner (as when not severely stressed, or experiencing the effects of a hormonal fear response). They may not be at the forefront of your awareness and realization, so to speak, but they're still present and they can still have an effect on you.

 

[Walkingwolf]

Maybe I'm a wimp but @ 70, and carrying the no-lock 340PD, I find follow-up shots almost impossible w/full house .357 so I carry four rounds of +P and one round (last one) of .357.

You are not a wimp, there is no wrong carry option unless someone else is telling you how to carry. That is wrong.

 

[elm_creek_smith]

Old cop -
You're no wimp. I'm 65 and have mostly given up carrying magnum ammo off duty. (My duty gun is a 4 inch 686-6 loaded with 125 grain SJHPS.) I've even mostly stopped carrying my 3 inch 13-3 off-duty due to the weight in favor of my 12-2 with standard pressure .38 Specials from Buffalo Bore. After 8-12 hours toting heavy iron on a loaded duty belt, I'm ready for a lighter load off-duty.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[sheepdawg]

I use 135 gr. Speer 38+Ps for short barrels in the winter or 125 gr. Nyclads in the summer but I'm also carrying an old 1974 Colt Cobra now instead of the SP100 I used to carry. I find the Colt to be far more accurate and follow ups quicker.

Nyclads may be anemic compared to a 357 but what they do to a plastic milk jug full of water convinced me that the much less recoil was a plus.

 

[forrestinmathews]

In earlier days, some folks used to talk about the last Magnum round being different letting them know when it was time to reload their revolver. (Which was more of a presumption and hope that they'd notice it when it happened.)

Having listened to my fair share of folks who have been involved in shootings, while they may not "feel recoil" during the stress of a dynamic situation, that doesn't mean that the actual recoil forces may not affect their shooting ability. They just aren't aware of it happening.

Much like not "hearing" the loud gunshot(s) doesn't mean your hearing still isn't being damaged.

"Sensory exclusion" only means your conscious mind isn't processing your senses in the same manner (as when not severely stressed, or experiencing the effects of a hormonal fear response). They may not be at the forefront of your awareness and realization, so to speak, but they're still present and they can still have an effect on you.

I thank you for your informative reply and applaud you for your proper use of affect vs. effect. I can understand the follow-up shots not being as fast due to the blast, but I have never noticed recoil or noise difference. Unless I am specifically paying attention to the loads as I am firing, which I clearly wouldn't be in a real world shooting scenario, I don't anticipate anything other than feeling a click before rapidly reloading as I don't train as much with five shots. Eight shot revolvers have ruined me.

 

[Old cop]

Thanks to everyone who weighed in on my last round is a magnum practice. During my 30 year LEO career I was involved in three duty related shootings, all w/my issued .38, and I learned a thing or two. One is I was unaware of recoil, two I never heard a thing and three people move when being shot at so not all your rounds will hit the mark. Bottom line is enough of my rounds did their job and I'm around to enjoy my retirement.

 

[forrestinmathews]

Thanks to everyone who weighed in on my last round is a magnum practice.

Are you going to tell us the rationale behind the last round being a magnum?