Snubby Carry Load. 357 or 38 +P

[dubshooter]

Yeah. If a 38 can't handle it, chances are another handgun caliber also would fall short. In that situation you would probably need a rifle or shotgun (or a Hellfire)

38 is good for me. That's my $0.02

 

[Kifaru]

As far as ballistics, I think each person has to ask himself what he needs the bullet to do. Does the bullet need to penetrate intermediate barriers? Does it need good terminal performance at extended yardage? Does it need to humanely put down an animal weighing over 500 pounds? For most concealed carriers, the answer to the above questions would most likely be no. What most of us need a bullet to do is penetrate deep enough to reach a vital organ of a human attacker and to do enough damage to that organ once it reaches it. For that, one does not need maximum velocity, only enough velocity. What is enough? For myself, I feel perfectly comfortable carrying Speer Gold Dot .38 Special +P in my steel revolvers and Winchester Defend standard pressure in my Airweights. What is enough for you? No one can tell you that. Consider all of the plausible factors in your life, and decide for yourself.

 

[Valmet]

While I don't carry a .357 I do carry a 442 Airweight in the warmer months and like the old Chicago load in a Federal 158-gr+P SWCLHP. If I decided to carry my 27-2 I'd likely chose that load in it as well.

 

[old&slow]

Personally I prefer GM over Ford..

About two cylinders of full blown 158gr. 357 mag. out of my little M60 and I don't want to play no more.
So, for practice I use 357's loaded to 38 +P. Less wear and tear on me and the firearm.
For carry I prefer the Speer Gold Dot Short Barrel 135 gr. 357.
it chrono out of my M60 at about 1000 fps. I think it's a good compromise between a 38+ p and a .357.

That's my $0.02 worth.
Probably really doesn't matter because lately I been carrying a Shield 9mm with 8 rounds of 147 gold dots.

 

[dubshooter]

That's my $0.02 worth.
Probably really doesn't matter because lately I been carrying a Shield 9mm with 8 rounds of 147 gold dots.

Geez. Don't you know 124gr is better?

 

[Walkingwolf]

A determined attacker can attack while legally dead for several seconds. A second is a longggg time while being attacked. Wild pigs are taken by sportsman with a .22 magnum air rifle. Let me repeat that, a .22 magnum air rifle. The secret, head shots, spinal shots are difficult but both most times results in an instant stop.

Now we get down to what happens in most stops where the assailant does not stop due to instant CNS hit. They stop because they want to stop, they do not want to get shot again, they just want to get away, if not survive until help arrives.

Very few cases where the criminal keeps fighting after being shot. So a lot of factors added. Percentage of citizens being a victim of a crime. Percentage of citizens falling victim to violent crime. Percentage of cases where a criminal continues to fight after being critically, or fatally shot. I think they call this risk assessment.

All that out of the way I have enough confidence that in most cases I can depend on a 22lr. It is in my pants pocket every waking minute. When I am out of the house I carry a variety of calibers, confident in all of them. But then I don't plan on getting into a shootout.

Of course I respect others choice to carry more, or less than they feel safe with.

 

[Bill In Texas]

I guess I'm a little different. First of all, I'm a believer in the NY reload. I know that the chances that I'll ever need to reload are slim if, (heaven forbid), I ever find myself having to use my weapon in a self defense situation.

That being said, my primary carry is a 640-1. The five rounds in it are Speer Gold Dot Short Barrel 135 grain .357's. I find that these rounds are not any more difficult for me to shoot than the .38 special variety.

In my bug and all my back up ammo I use the Speer Gold Dot Short Barrel 135 grain .38 specials. Obviously, they will work in both pistols. So, I guess I cast my vote for both.

 

[colt_saa]

I guess I'm a little different. First of all, I'm a believer in the NY reload.

Did you know there is a holster for that

I just got this one late last year.

I really like it. Both can even be drawn at the same time.

 

[woodsltc]

I didn't read any of the responses to the OP.....but my 2 cents worth of advise is to use whatever you can shoot with the most accuracy. Bullet placement is the most important thing IMO.

Don

 

[smoothshooter]

I shoot low end .357s that are stronger than any .38+P, but nowhere near the blast and recoil. People talk about the .38/40 and the 'FBI load' but with a .357 you can match these or make them a little stronger. They are useful, especially in a house. If I have a gun with a .38 +P in it, I don't feel under armed. If I ever have to pull a trigger, I'm not going to stop at one shot.

There seems to be a fair amount of evidence that if you shoot an attacker at least two or three times, it matters a lot less what load is being used as far as stopping power is concerned.

 

[rockquarry]

You can get many opinions on this subject, but it all comes down to what a shooter can handle. That's a personal and objective thing based on skill level. There can be a significant difference in velocity between the factory loads the original poster mentioned, but how much this matters in a real life situation is subject to debate.

Probably the best thing to do is get a variety of ammunition and shoot them at targets, and not up real close like many people do, conveniently using the excuse that deadly encounters only happen at very short distances. If one can hit his target consistently at 25 yards, he'll have no trouble up closer. 25 yard shooting will blatantly point out a shooter's skill or lack of same and may be a determining factor regarding which ammunition to use.

Personally, I find .357 Magnum muzzle blast horrendous from a snubnose gun and the recoil is quite unpleasant as well. These are loadings best reserved for very experienced handgunners that shoot a lot and can take advantage of any alleged benefit provided by greater velocity.

 

[smoothshooter]

My experience shooting critters with a handgun has convinced me that hard cast swc projectiles perform much better than projectiles designed to expand.

Folks enjoy reading ballistic tables and looking at ballistic gel tests. Unfortunately, folks imagine that these things are determinative of effectiveness. My experience suggests that reasoning is hyperbolic.

Muzzle energy overstates effectiveness because it overemphasizes velocity in a handgun. Momentum is a much better predictor of effectiveness in flesh and bone than muzzel energy.

Velocity is important only in that you need enough to obtain adequate penetration. Sacrificing bullet weight to obtain higher velocity is a fool's errand in my opinion.

I'm very skeptical about expanding bullets in handguns, particularly short barreled handguns.

I see no benefit in trying to squeeze more velocity from a short barreled handgun with 357 as opposed to 38 special.

My feelings exactly.
I carry and use nothing but hard or soft semi-wadcutters, or hollow-based full wadcutters.
Have not fired a jacketed bullet in over 20 years in a handgun, not counting cheap ball loads for practice only, and don't plan to in the forseeable future

 

[Bill In Texas]

Did you know there is a holster for that

I just got this one late last year.

I really like it. Both can even be drawn at the same time.

Where can I find one! That is awesome!

 

[Old Corp]

My only .357 snub is a M640. With the proper grips, I have no real issue with accuracy or decent follow up shots using most magnum ammo.
Yes, it's a little on the exciting side, and not something you wanna run 200 rounds a session through, but entirely doable.

Everyone has had their walk and experiences. I have this niggling feeling that prevents me being completely comfortable carrying .38 +P's.
It was what I was carrying in my issued M66 back in the early '80's. To date me, it was S&W-brand .38 Spl. 125 gr. JHP +P.
I was involved in a shooting where I placed four (4) of those around the sternum of an EDP rushing at me with a raised butcher knife.
They had all the effect of a water-pistol.
I was able to deliver a CNS shot that essentially saved my posterior.

So, I'm pretty sure that current technology bullet design has come a long way and performs better now. But, these misgivings still reside in a corner of my noggin.

 

[Old cop]

I've found that shooting .357 out of either my 340M&P, or my 340PD (both no lock models), is too difficult from the standpoint of accurate follow up shots. I carry the Speer +P in four chambers and the last round is a 125 grain magnum. I don't know if this has solved anything but at least I have one round of .357 on board.

 

[colt_saa]

Where can I find one! That is awesome!

The maker is Bell Charter Oak

BELL CHARTER OAK CUSTOM HOLSTERS PANCAKE STYLES (607) 783-2483

 

[forrestinmathews]

You may also find the info provided by Lucky Gunner on this page of interest for comparison purposes.

It is specifically tailored to .38 and .357 ammo though the gel utilized is not the same as that used in the FBI protocol nor Dr. Roberts' testing.

That said, the penetration, expansion and images provided are interesting.

None of the other comments make as much noise as this one above. There is real data that can be used. I'm changing my .38 load because of it. Thank you.

Lessons learned:
1. Choose your bullets wisely in a 2" .38 staying lighter for expansion.
2. Muzzle velocity must exceed 860 fps for reliable expansion.
3. A 2" .357 doesn't have expansion problems.

 

[blues7]

None of the other comments make as much noise as this one above. There is real data that can be used. I'm changing my .38 load because of it. Thank you.

My pleasure.

 

[ContinentalOp]

.357 Magnum loads will generate higher velocities, even in snubs. However, I don't live in a vacuum so just that aspect in isolation isn't a very practical question for me. Even if I could control it well, other factors include increased muzzle blast and flash. I suppose one could use a mid-range load, like the Speer SB-GDHP, but then the velocity advantage is reduced.

"Stopping power" is a very difficult concept to quantify. When someone mentions how powerful the 125gr .357 Magnum JHP is, I think of the LEO who was hit with that round in the heart, but was still able to overcome his (or her? I can't remember...) attacker and survive. I also remember reading a couple of stories of attackers who were stopped instantly with one or two rounds of Federal 125gr Nyclads, which some consider anemic for self defense. What I have seen is data showing that among the typical handgun service calibers, there isn't much difference between them in terms of how well they can stop an attacker. I probably wouldn't worry over whether I should use .357 Magnum over .38 Special in a snub. I'd just pick a good self defense load that I can shoot well and leave it at that.

Just my opinion.

FWIW, even when I had a 3" 65, it was kept loaded with .38 Special +P loads.

 

[Pisgah]

Which load is "better" from a snubnose -- .38+P or .357 Mag.-- is a matter of opinion. Which is faster is a matter of fact -- it will always be the .357.

Across the board, regardless of caliber, the load that is fastest in a long barrel will be fastest in a short barrel. Just as with engines, "There is no substitute for cubic inches."