Speed GDSB 38/357

[CCantu357]

I have carried the old FBI load for some time now but seems hard to find. The local stores always have Speer Gold Dot Short Barrel in both 38 and 357. I use a four inch M19 and was wondering how these two rounds perform from a four inch, rather than the two inch barrel. The 357 load seems very mild. I have been looking for a super hot 38 round without the terrible boom of a 357 for indoor self defense.

 

[Steve C]

The 357 load seems very mild. I have been looking for a super hot 38 round without the terrible boom of a 357 for indoor self defense.

So why not use the .357 load???

The .38 spl load from a 4" should begin to approach the .357 load from a 2" and be close to being as good.

 

[CCantu357]

Good point, thanks. It seems funny to me now it is hard to find true +p 38 ammo. The velocities just seem so low. I do not want a 1300 or 1400 fps muzzle blast, but would like to have more than 9mm stopping power.

 

[Hapworth]

There was a thread on this not long back but I can't recall the title; run a search.

The upshot of it was that Speer Gold Dot Short Barrel rounds maintain good terminal ballistics in everything up to and including four inch barrels; because of that NYC PD designated the .38 Special version the standard round for everything from their snubbies up to their four inch service revolvers, if I recall.

I'm not a fan of .357 for indoor use, but if I had to, the powered-down Gold Dot short barrel version would be it for its lower flash, lighter recoil and lesser boom.

As it stands, I've chosen the .38 GDSB as the go-to round for all my wheelies...

EDIT:

Found it... http://smith-wessonforum.com/ammo/269094-speer-135-gr-sb.html

 

[Nevada Ed]

The SB (short barrel) box of Gold Dot ammo was designed for velositys of 1,000 fps or lower with the bullet that is loaded into this ammo. (c/o phone call to Speer)
A 4 inch barrel will give maximum velositys for this round and if higher; the company states that the .357 magnum load should be used,which has a bullet designed for the higher velositys to keep the bullet intact.
There is very little difference in the 38 and 357 loads and with a 4 inch barrel the Magnum load would probably be the best in your case but if you have the money it would be nice to see which works out better in your gun if you had the option.

The 135 is a great bullet.... I save it for my snub nose and use the 125 GD for my 6 inch that has a 96% street record with a 4 inch revolver, even though some like a 140gr or larger.

 

[Hapworth]

The SB (short barrel) box of Gold Dot ammo was designed for velositys of 1,000 fps or lower with the bullet that is loaded into this ammo.
A 4 inch barrel will give maximum velositys for this round and if higher; the company states that the .357 magnum load should be used,which has a bullet designed for the higher velositys to keep the bullet intact.

I'm under the impression that the 135 grain bullet used in the Speer Gold Dot Short Barrel .38 and .357 loads is the same. If so, it should work at both .38 and .357 velocities.

Do you have confirmation otherwise?

 

[mkk41]

Is there any reliable published results from actual police or citizen self-defense shootings?

I've always felt gelatin tests are junk science. Used mostly by the ad dept to show how perfectly the hi-tech bullet mushrooms , when shot at a perfectly perpendicular angle , into a perfectly homogenous and consistant medium. No clothing , no bones , no muscle , no organs , etc , all of which vary in density and bullet resistance.

Not to mention the difference in a 5'9'' 129lb 16yr old crack-smoking 'skinny' , and a 5'11'' 325lb 45yr old 'roid-raging iron pumper.

My Doc interned at a city ER and he still says the worst shooting wound he ever saw came from a Glaser Safety Slug.

 

[Hapworth]

Is there any reliable published results from actual police or citizen self-defense shootings?

I've always felt gelatin tests are junk science. Used mostly by the ad dept to show how perfectly the hi-tech bullet mushrooms , when shot at a perfectly perpendicular angle , into a perfectly homogenous and consistant medium. No clothing , no bones , no muscle , no organs , etc , all of which vary in density and bullet resistance.

Not to mention the difference in a 5'9'' 129lb 16yr old crack-smoking 'skinny' , and a 5'11'' 325lb 45yr old 'roid-raging iron pumper.

My Doc interned at a city ER and he still says the worst shooting wound he ever saw came from a Glaser Safety Slug.

Fair points all, but only part of the story.

FBI spent a lot of time developing that "junk science" , and the gelatin media, though certainly not a perfect analogue to a human body, approximates the average density of flesh, muscle, bone and sinew; the test is also generally conducted with four layers of denim.

Perfect? No. Reasonable indicator? Yes.

But its greatest merit is in providing control upon which different rounds can be tested against one another.

 

[Nevada Ed]

Some test used live goats but I don't think they do this any more ? They kept records of penetration,expansion ,time animal lived etc.
Most slaughter houses do not use live ammo any more and use hydrolic instraments........with all the "Tree huggers" and
pet people out there waiving red flags nowadays.

I have never tried the wet newspaper thing but the water jugs
do work but it takes a lot of them and the bullets don't always fly straight and you can loose one,now and then.

I guess if you don't care for the gel or jug test you could go out and shoot a few slabs of BBQ ribs befor putting them on the fire ?

PS;
next water jug test of mine will have shreaded news paper inside them,from now on..........
it should be a little better test than just plain water and I might not have to wear a rain coat !!

 

[Texas Star]

Some test used live goats but I don't think they do this any more ? They kept records of penetration,expansion ,time animal lived etc.
Most slaughter houses do not use live ammo any more and use hydrolic instraments........with all the "Tree huggers" and
pet people out there waiving red flags nowadays.

I have never tried the wet newspaper thing but the water jugs
do work but it takes a lot of them and the bullets don't always fly straight and you can loose one,now and then.

I guess if you don't care for the gel or jug test you could go out and shoot a few slabs of BBQ ribs befor putting them on the fire ?

No. The dead meat doesn't have the adrenaline, neurological, and circulation issues that live animals have.

However, a gun editor who has shot some animals, including alligators, said that bullets in animals resemble those fired into water jugs more than in any other medium that he's seen.

 

[jlanecole]

Some test used live goats but I don't think they do this any more ? They kept records of penetration,expansion ,time animal lived etc.

I think that would be the 'Strasbourg Tests.'