SW40VE

<snip>PS: The stance you were trying to name is most often called the "combat" stance. When I did my latest qualification, the weaver stance was prohibitied and only the combat stance was permitted for the qualification for my DCJS Firearm endorsement. While I am fairly comfortable with either, I still prefer the weaver. It was the stance I learned as I was growing up. Tac training now tends to focusing more on the combat stance as it allows for faster lateral movement and transitioning to firing on the move if a bad guy starts firing back. Conversely, the weaver offers less of your own body as target mass for the bad guy to shoot at.

Competitive shooters typically prefer the weaver stance for accuracy whereas LE/Mil/Sec shooters just want to take a taget out and get to cover as quickly as possible if the stuff hits the fan. I have also heard the combat stance called the "triangle stance" because your arms and shoulders form a triangle as do your legs to the ground.

That shooting position is known as the Isosceles because of it's resemblance to an Isosceles triangle.

With the Isosceles the feet are placed about shoulder width apart, feet and shoulders are square to the target, knees slightly bent with your weight slightly forward on the balls of your feet. The pistol is grasped in a normal two-handed grip, and held with both arms extended fully forward. Elbows should be straight, but not locked, head erect and shoulders not hunched.

It's a pretty common position, however, most people find that the Weaver provides them with better recoil management which results in quicker follow up shots, especially with magnum calibers.

Of course, then there is the Chapman position, which is kind of a combination of the Isosceles and the Weaver.
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How do these compare to the SW9VE? Is there a noticeable difference between the two other the the price of rounds? I like my SC9VE that I bought yesterday so much I might just buy the SW40VE.

I've only dry fired it so far but I don't feel any issues at all with the trigger. I've read allot of negative things about it though. And there is supposed to be a fix by removing or changing a spring. Leaving mine just like it is.
 
Shouldn't be any difference as far as the feel
of the pistol.
Just the .40S&W can be a bit "snappier" than
the 9mm as far as the round. It's not bad mind
you, bit I imagine it could slightly slow down
repeat shots vs say a milder 9mm round unless
you are used to it.
I'm no great pistol shooter, so it probably
effects me to some extent..
To me, shooting a .40 kind of feels like a 9mm
with some pretty hot ammo for a lack of a better
description.
I bought the .40 cuz it's purely for defense,
animals most likely if anything, and I think
the .40 gives more smashumup per round vs the
9mm. The blunt nose makes it a good hole
puncher. So I'm quite willing to trade the
extra ammo cost and "pop" for what I think is a
more effective round on the varmints I might
run into.
 
I'm just wanting to have two so when I take my sons (20 & 26) shooting we won't be with only one gun. There's a pretty nice indoor range we want go to for bonding sessions. What better way the blasting targets. Reviews say it great ammo for the range.

Hey, great excuse to buy two more guns. So we each have one. The wife will fall for that one. He,he,he,he,............

May just get another 9mm since Walmart has the brass ammo for under $9 per 50 here in Columbia.
 
That shooting position is known as the Isosceles because of it's resemblance to an Isosceles triangle.


Great job! I ducked "isosceles" and went with "triangle" because I couldn't remember how to spell "isosceles" ! They are the same stance, however - and CShoff described it perfectly!

In my experience, military & fed security folks use the term "combat" more frequently while LE folks often use "isosceles" instead. Still the same stance expertly described by CShoff.
 
Originally posted by Pasifikawv:
That shooting position is known as the Isosceles because of it's resemblance to an Isosceles triangle.


Great job! I ducked "isosceles" and went with "triangle" because I couldn't remember how to spell "isosceles" ! They are the same stance, however - and CShoff described it perfectly!

In my experience, military & fed security folks use the term "combat" more frequently while LE folks often use "isosceles" instead. Still the same stance expertly described by CShoff.

Well, what I provided really should have been a "textbook" description. I took it right out of my lesson plan that I use for my CCW classes.
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We use essentially the same explanation in our NRA courses as well.
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Originally posted by cshoff:
<snip>PS: The stance you were trying to name is most often called the "combat" stance. When I did my latest qualification, the weaver stance was prohibitied and only the combat stance was permitted for the qualification for my DCJS Firearm endorsement. While I am fairly comfortable with either, I still prefer the weaver. It was the stance I learned as I was growing up. Tac training now tends to focusing more on the combat stance as it allows for faster lateral movement and transitioning to firing on the move if a bad guy starts firing back. Conversely, the weaver offers less of your own body as target mass for the bad guy to shoot at.

Competitive shooters typically prefer the weaver stance for accuracy whereas LE/Mil/Sec shooters just want to take a taget out and get to cover as quickly as possible if the stuff hits the fan. I have also heard the combat stance called the "triangle stance" because your arms and shoulders form a triangle as do your legs to the ground.

That shooting position is known as the Isosceles because of it's resemblance to an Isosceles triangle.

With the Isosceles the feet are placed about shoulder width apart, feet and shoulders are square to the target, knees slightly bent with your weight slightly forward on the balls of your feet. The pistol is grasped in a normal two-handed grip, and held with both arms extended fully forward. Elbows should be straight, but not locked, head erect and shoulders not hunched.

It's a pretty common position, however, most people find that the Weaver provides them with better recoil management which results in quicker follow up shots, especially with magnum calibers.

Of course, then there is the Chapman position, which is kind of a combination of the Isosceles and the Weaver.
icon_smile.gif

Like this?
st_staystance_2000303A3.jpg

(left) In the original isosceles stance, the shooter stands erect with his arms held straight out. It makes for accurate shooting, but does not compensate for the severe recoil, which makes multiple shots very difficult.
(right) The combat isosceles stance makes use of the athletic stance, but in Wilson's view, it does not deal with recoil as well as the Weaver stance.

st_staystance_2000303A.jpg

Sheriff Jim Wilson recommends what he calls the "modern Weaver stance." It is balanced, focused, dynamic, and able to deal with recoil in order to deliver quick and accurate repeat shots.


I prefer the Weaver stance.
 
Originally posted by DiggerDog:
Originally posted by cshoff:
<snip>PS: The stance you were trying to name is most often called the "combat" stance. When I did my latest qualification, the weaver stance was prohibitied and only the combat stance was permitted for the qualification for my DCJS Firearm endorsement. While I am fairly comfortable with either, I still prefer the weaver. It was the stance I learned as I was growing up. Tac training now tends to focusing more on the combat stance as it allows for faster lateral movement and transitioning to firing on the move if a bad guy starts firing back. Conversely, the weaver offers less of your own body as target mass for the bad guy to shoot at.

Competitive shooters typically prefer the weaver stance for accuracy whereas LE/Mil/Sec shooters just want to take a taget out and get to cover as quickly as possible if the stuff hits the fan. I have also heard the combat stance called the "triangle stance" because your arms and shoulders form a triangle as do your legs to the ground.

That shooting position is known as the Isosceles because of it's resemblance to an Isosceles triangle.

With the Isosceles the feet are placed about shoulder width apart, feet and shoulders are square to the target, knees slightly bent with your weight slightly forward on the balls of your feet. The pistol is grasped in a normal two-handed grip, and held with both arms extended fully forward. Elbows should be straight, but not locked, head erect and shoulders not hunched.

It's a pretty common position, however, most people find that the Weaver provides them with better recoil management which results in quicker follow up shots, especially with magnum calibers.

Of course, then there is the Chapman position, which is kind of a combination of the Isosceles and the Weaver.
icon_smile.gif

Like this?
st_staystance_2000303A3.jpg

(left) In the original isosceles stance, the shooter stands erect with his arms held straight out. It makes for accurate shooting, but does not compensate for the severe recoil, which makes multiple shots very difficult.
(right) The combat isosceles stance makes use of the athletic stance, but in Wilson's view, it does not deal with recoil as well as the Weaver stance.

st_staystance_2000303A.jpg

Sheriff Jim Wilson recommends what he calls the "modern Weaver stance." It is balanced, focused, dynamic, and able to deal with recoil in order to deliver quick and accurate repeat shots.


I prefer the Weaver stance.

For most situations, I prefer the Weaver as well. That said, shooting weak side from behind a barricade, for example, requires a modified position in order to keep as much of your body behind the cover as possible. When you get into the more advanced defensive shooting techniques, you have to be able to adapt and modify your preferred positions while still maintaining balance, stability, support, natural point of aim, and as much comfort as possible. You also may need to cant your pistol one way or the other when you fire in order to use the cover effectively.
 
Whew! I knew I could depend on you guys to come up with a name for it!

Pasifikawv, let us know what you find out about your SW40VE.
 
I don't know about Pasifikawv but I have had a new SW40VE for about a month now and I have taken it to the range twice. The first time I put about 130 rounds through it with 30 of those being my SD round, a Federal hollow point 185gr and the other 100 Winchester 165gr with no fail's to do anything
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I found the gun so much fun to shoot! Very smooth, light, and accurate except for me getting used to the trigger a bit. I was still able to hit center mass and head with all 10 rounds at 7,10, and 15 yds though.
The second time I took her out was this last Saturday morning and I must say it was almost like night and day. I was decently accurate with the gun on the first go around but this last time I was dead on. I shot one handed this time also and found that the gun is super easy to shoot one handed. I was able to hit one of those tiny little black with florescent underneath targets from ten yds, 3 bulls eyes, 4 within the 8-9 range and the other 3 were just outside that. I could easily shoot a round per second (which is as fast as we are allowed to shoot at my range) with one hand and keep the gun on the target. So final assessment after 2 range trips with about 250 rounds of 3 different types of ammo and no FTanything's or malfunctions. I am extremely impressed and happy with my purchase of my SW40VE and look forward to 1000's of rounds of fun and would say that I easily trust this gun with me and my family's life. It goes bang every time you pull the trigger and is accurate and .40 caliber packs a pretty good punch.
 
I drove for 2 hours Sunday to pick out a handgun. I settled on a SW40VE. Drove 2 hours home. Loaded it up and started running rounds through it. 14 rounds fired and something broke. Gun will not cock when the slide is pulled back, will not fire. When I field stripped it looking down into the handle there is a little conical spring sticking out that doesn't look right. When the gun is reassembled and you look at the back end of it there are now gaps between the slide and the frame that weren't there before.

Called S&W and they are sending me a kit to send it back to them. I am really dissappointed. I don't know if I'll ever trust this gun again.
 
Well GaDawg your first problem is you didn't field strip and clean the gun before firing it for the first time. Who knows what was inside that gun before you started putting rounds down her throat. Always clean before shootin the first time! I hope everything works out for you though.
 
It happens, GaDawg. Sometimes things break. It could have happened to a top of the line S&W pistol, too - sometimes one just slips through.

I understand your disappointment, especially after investing the time to buy it, but I'm not sure that it's realistic to never trust the weapon because of one problem. Now, if it happens again, then I would probably share your feelings of distrust. But, given the relative reliability of the SW40VE as a whole, one failure of one firearm is a reason for disappointment, but not distrust.

Best of luck.

(YMMV.)
 
I researched this gun and the 9mm model quite a bit and didn't see anybody else having this problem so it's probably a one off incident. I wouldn't give up on the gun if it were me.
 
well why we are on the topic of stances, I have always shot from a modified weaver. Left elbow lower, right gun hand extended, body slight turn to the left, left leg a bit further extended than the right. I shoot much like that picture of the sheriff and his modified weaver.
I shot like that for years and didnt know it had a name until a few years ago.It's how I watched Army instructers shoot so I adopted it as well.


seems everyone is picking up on the combat isoceles. Everyone leaning way forward, both arms extended, legs evenly spaced. They learned it from the Son of Sam movie I think.
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The question I have is if you have lower uppper body strenght would the combat icoleces be better than a modified weaver, since both arms are better supporting the gun. In a weaver, the left arm drops and is really a guide, but the right arm does most of the work. In the Iscoles, both arms are equal. It would seem the weak or elderly would benefit from both arms fully extended. Which I may have to change to as I get older.
 
Originally posted by GaDawg:
...Called S&W and they are sending me a kit to send it back to them. I am really disappointed. I don't know if I'll ever trust this gun again.
People fly every day in aircraft with remanufactured engines that are completely trustworthy.

I will suggest that you let S&W do their magic, then go shoot it again and see how long it take to break again. You might be pleasantly surprised! ...and broke from buying all that ammunition
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14 rounds fired and something broke. Gun will not cock when the slide is pulled back, will not fire.

Man, I hate to hear about such problems with new firearms - but it does happen.

I had no problems whatsoever with the action of my SW40VE. I just had accuracy issues. I thought for sure it was just me and that I was pulling as I squeezed the trigger. Only when I turned it over to my NRA LE Instructor who reported similar problems and recommended service that I sent it off for further diagnosis.

If the accuracy issues can be overcome (either by me using better technique or if a minor defect is repaired) it should be a great acquisition. I really do like the overall functionality of the SW40VE. I just need for it to be as accurate as my others when in my hand.

If I have any complaint it is the length of trigger travel. It could be a slightly shorter squeeze. But even that is minor and still within acceptable standards.

I should have it back with a report of the findings in a day or two. I'll take it for a walk this weekend and see how it goes.
 
I'll be danged...

I just got a call from my gunsmith and lo and behold I wasn't just screwing up! My SW40VE was shooting low and needed the barrel replaced. Gunsmith tells me its the first time someone sent one in that was actually faulty and not due to poor technique.

Even tho I called my NRA LE Instructor to test the SW40VE and found the same problem, a little part of me thought that just maybe there was nothing wrong with the SW40VE and it wa all my fault.

I tell ya, I am happy I didn't waste my gunsmith's time for my own poor shooting. I feel much better and can't wait to get my SW40VE back!

I should have it back for this weekend - I hope!
 
Originally posted by Pasifikawv:
I'll be danged...

I just got a call from my gunsmith and lo and behold I wasn't just screwing up! My SW40VE was shooting low and needed the barrel replaced. Gunsmith tells me its the first time someone sent one in that was actually faulty and not due to poor technique.

Even tho I called my NRA LE Instructor to test the SW40VE and found the same problem, a little part of me thought that just maybe there was nothing wrong with the SW40VE and it wa all my fault.

I tell ya, I am happy I didn't waste my gunsmith's time for my own poor shooting. I feel much better and can't wait to get my SW40VE back!

I should have it back for this weekend - I hope!

Thanks for providing the update, Pasifikawv. Let us know how it shoots after you get it back!
 
Repaired SW40VE shoots like it's supposed to!

I was having an off outing at the range- especially with weak-hand shooting, but the SW40VE was on target.
 

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