The Slippery Slope...

[blues7]

For those of you who have never seen a recent image of Svengali, er, I mean ChattanoogaPhil:

"And that's all you'll need..."

 

[OK Hog Shooter]

Ahhh... ARs... I hate to bring up another point... but just wait till you start looking at other calibers... and manufacturers seem to be producing upgrades and revolutionary new accessories faster than you can say... "I gotta get one of those"... I have given up... no, not really! [emoji1303][emoji41][emoji1303]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[blues7]

Ahhh... ARs... I hate to bring up another point... but just wait till you start looking at other calibers... and manufacturers seem to be producing upgrades and revolutionary new accessories faster than you can say... "I gotta get one of those"... I have given up... no, not really!

 

[ChattanoogaPhil]

My Aimpoint and Wilson Combat TTU... Oooooooooooo... ya got to have it bro... you'll be losing sleep until you do.

 

[blues7]

You know, I can make it to Chattanooga in under 4 hours, don't you?

(Hell, I can't even threaten you...you have more and better guns! )

Get thee behind me, Svengali!

 

[ChattanoogaPhil]

You know, I can make it to Chattanooga in under 4 hours, don't you?


p)

Come on over. We'll take some guns to the Club and get ya hooked on suppressed shooting too.

 

[blues7]

Come on over. We'll take some guns to the Club and get ya hooked on suppressed shooting too.

I may have to take you up on that sometime. It would be great to meet you and get spoiled by "the club".

Had I the foresight, I might have taken care of the matter of licensing for suppressors when I worked joint cases with ATF in years gone by. As sibling Treasury agencies we routinely supported each others investigations.

Also worked some good arms cases back in the day along with (what was then) Defense Investigative Service and Air Force OSI. Mostly the Eastern Bloc trying to smuggle arms and munitions out or smuggle their stuff in. We'd borrow military hardware for flash to impress the bad guys and establish our bona fides in our undercover ops.

 

[Grjfer]

Yep I was done 3 AR's ago.

 

[Rastoff]

Hanging around these parts is near as bad as being the eunuch guarding the harem.

We are a bunch of enablers. We love our job!

Yeah, but you're not taking into account the fact that I'd probably be the one guy to screw up the installation of a drop in trigger and end up wishing for a factory version from S&W.

(Even a dolt like me can reliably connect an accessory to a rail.)

If you can connect something to a rail, you can install a drop in cartridge type trigger. It's much easier than installing a factory trigger. See, with the Wilson or Velocity shown above, not to mention a hundred other manufacturers, there is only one part to deal with. With a factory or Mil-Spec fire control group, there are several parts and you have to overcome the pressure of a couple springs as well. AND, you have to get those springs installed correctly or the gun won't work.

Yeah, cartridge type trigger is the way to go.

Failing that, consider doing the 15 minute trigger job: 15 Minute Practical Trigger Job for the AR-15

If you skip the part about cutting one leg off the hammer spring, you'll still have a really smooth trigger. Much better than stock. It will still have too much creep, but you won't care because it's so smooth. The other triggers are better, but this only costs time and really does work.

See, we're not so bad. I just saved you a bunch of money.

 

[blues7]

Actually, Doug, when I looked at the video on the Wilson Combat site the installation seemed pretty straight forward.

Then I read a review somewhere a short while later where the author was evaluating nine aftermarket triggers. The Wilson and Velocity were among that group.

IIRC, the Wilson trigger was his pick for second place. He did mention that of the triggers tested it was the hardest install (with that term being relative to the other triggers...not that it was particularly difficult). The Velocity came in a bit lower but he did mention its many good points from his perspective.

At the present moment I don't plan on messing with the trigger or internals until or unless I feel that something is either amiss or otherwise holding my own or the rifle's performance back. At this early date I haven't yet determined where that line is. I hope to do so sooner rather than later.

__________________________________________________________

"Sad. Very sad. That there Blues fella doesn't know what he's missing. Okay now, step right up! Step up I say!"

 

[blues7]

Here's a link to the trigger review I mentioned above.



On another note...the only person besides you, Doug, that appears to really be trying to save me any money is my new hero, Kenan Flasowski:

A carbine is great for home defense as long as it is reliable so I do recommend them. The first thing anybody should hang on their gun is a light. You can't hit what you can't see, and civilians definitely should never engage a human target unless you can positively identify it as a threat. You cannot do that at night without a light. Plus the benefit of blinding them with 120 lumens of strobing disorientation will give you a distinct advantage.

Next would be a good lightweight two-point sling, then a red dot reflex sight. I see guns with a lot of extra weight (forward pistol grip, incredibly adjustable stocks, four pound slings, etc) added to them for not a lot of benefit.

 

[Rastoff]

Interesting read. I haven't read it all, but I'm not surprised by what he found.

I will say this, in a combat type situation, I don't think these triggers are a great improvement. If you're trying for maximum accuracy, they make a big difference, but not when firing controlled pairs under time pressure.

I have both a POF and the aforementioned Velocity. Both feel almost exactly the same to me and each cost $150. I like the installation method for the Velocity better. Is the Wilson better? Probably, but the only people who will be able to tell are those who are much better shooters than I.

In the end it will all depend on what you want. The 15 minute trigger job served me well until I saved up a few bucks and got the Velocity. Does this trigger make me a better shooter? I don't think so, but it is really nice to shoot.

 

[blues7]

Interesting read. I haven't read it all, but I'm not surprised by what he found.

I will say this, in a combat type situation, I don't think these triggers are a great improvement. If you're trying for maximum accuracy, they make a big difference, but not when firing controlled pairs under time pressure.

Bingo. That's my primary concern, Doug. Recreational shooting, a bit of practicing and brushing up my former tactical skills and maintaining a firearm which will stand ready should it ever be called upon to do duty as a battle rifle.

 

[Rastoff]

Then don't touch your trigger. It will be fine as delivered from the factory. You will get much more benefit by spending that money on ammo.

 

[SeniorChief5352]

Good to hear about the Aimpoint...

...But wait a minute, Babalooey! Am I going to need a trigger now? Hmmm, I can't afford to let Chief get too far ahead with his TS. Then again, he won't want a Command Sergeant Major to get a leg up on him...and so it goes.

You can't go wrong with Aimpoint. Even a CSM can use one correctly 9 times out of 10...

Do yourself a favor, pick up a trigger... It's the best investment I've made to date.

 

[blues7]

Do yourself a favor, pick up a trigger... It's the best investment I've made to date.

 

[Dennis]

I never wanted to have to clean another m16 for the rest of my life after qualifing with them in the Corps after 20 years. That was in 91 when i retired. About 3 or four years ago, i figured oh what the hell... Built a nice LR type '15, then a mid-range, then a short range cqb-type, then got a 458 socom upper and built another lower. Lately another '15... GP use.
ALG triggers are great triggers for general use and not too expensive. Returned my eotechs and put a PRO on my cqb-type and a nice 1-4 loopy on my 458.
IT WILL SUCK YOU IN! LOL

 

[rwsmith]

Guns are like babies......

They are easy to get, but it's the care and feeding that is the tough part.

 

[ChattanoogaPhil]

SeniorChief5352 is right on target. There is no better investment.

Unlike a set of Ping golf clubs that won't improve a duffer's golf shots, a quality trigger will improve the shooting of even those who don't practice much. From bench shooting to duty, the right trigger for the job makes a significant difference.

Choose wisely. When you see those lesser priced fancy colored anodized triggers keep in mind the article in MilitaryTimes. It isn't just about how the trigger feels out of the box -- we've had other upper-end triggers turn to junk with really low round counts. -- All precision triggers are not created equal, and some shouldn't be created at all.

Safety, performance and durability...

Simplicity is also a consideration. Set screws... adjustable pull... No thanks. Notice the notes in your link about safety concerns with Velocity which is more about the lack of simplicity of install design and the end user than a safety design flaw. All considerations...

 

[blues7]

All good points, Phil, and if I were to change the trigger out (myself) I would opt for the most foolproof and robust design.

Scrimping on a part so critical to the rifle's reliability would be foolish at best.

No, if I decide to venture down this road, (after some more shooting and testing with the TS with the OEM trigger), it will be one sans adjustments. That pretty much means the Wilson Combat.