Those who do not study history are doomed to repeat it

[CAJUNLAWYER]

"This will be final message from Saigon station. It has been a long and hard fight and we have lost. This experience, unique in the history of the United States, does not signal necessarily the demise of the United States as a world power. The severity of the defeat and the circumstances of it, however, would seem to call for a reassessment of the policies of ********* half-measures which have characterized much of our participation here despite the commitment of manpower and resources, which were certainly generous. Those who fail to learn from history are forced to repeat it. Let us hope that we will not have another Vietnam experience and that we have learned our lesson. Saigon signing off."
May 1, 1975 Thomas Polgar CIA station Chief Saigon

 

[Doug M.]

I have seen people who probably know more than I do state very emphatically that the current situation is much worse. SecDef and the Chair of the Joint Chiefs should have resigned rather than comply, and I suspect that more flag officers should have.

 

[Gunner99]

Apparently those in charge haven’t learned a thing. And who is is the question.

 

[UncleEd]

Didn't some guy, I think with a
military background, warn the
U.S. about a military/industrial
(read war contractors) complex?
That warning was way back in
the 1950s.

 

[waffles]

I get concerned that the lessons im hearing voiced more and more seem to be stay forever, fight more, full *** it, rather than don't get involved in conflicts you're not equipped to win, or hell, at least to leave earlier.

 

[Doc Intrepid]

"Nation Building" was doomed to fail when the general populace has no coherent self-recognition of a 'national identity' as an Afghan - rather than as a member of one of many tribes. The concept of a Jeffersonian Democracy springing out of the sand was ultimately western hubris.

It was past time to depart. Arguably we should have left after disposing of Osama Bin Ladin - the reason we went there in the first place.

And leaving was always going involve a degree of chaos.

But the depth of failure and lack of planning & execution in this case is truly, historically staggering - it is not what we did, but *how we did it* that will go down in history as a failure of a magnitude seldom seen in American History.

 

[Bekeart]

More Quotes

Didn't some guy, I think with a
military background, warn the
U.S. about a military/industrial
(read war contractors) complex?
That warning was way back in
the 1950s.

Two more quotes come to mind.
"Speak softly but carry a big stick"
" bomb them back into the Stone Age"

 

[Greyman50]

Like him or not, MacArthur was correct.

 

[mdf9183]

It was Gen. Curtis Lemay who said "Bomb them back into the stone age".

 

[waffles]

Which targets did we not hit in Afghanistan that we should have? What exactly are we bombing back to the stone age, why, and what would it get us besides a monstrous reputation?

 

[Protocall_Design]

The problem to me is, when our leaders ignore or are ignorant of history, we are doomed to repeat it with them.

 

[PALADIN85020]

Like him or not, MacArthur was correct.

Dwight Eisenhower in his Presidential farewell address - Jan. 17, 1961:

In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex.

John

 

[Rifleman200-10X]

I just have to wonder why we seem to ALMOST reach the finish line, but never quite finish, any of these conflicts. The last war we can say with no uncertainty that "WE WON", was WW2.

 

[waffles]

I just have to wonder why we seem to ALMOST reach the finish line, but never quite finish, any of these conflicts. The last war we can say with no uncertainty that "WE WON", was WW2.

I hear you, but Gulf War 1. Clearly defined goals that we stuck to. Didn't go in for regime change or nation building, just did what we came to do, declared victory , and went home.

 

[Rustyt1953]

I have been having conversations wit my SIL these last few days and we now have one more thing in common. That gnawing feeling in our guts of having been let down.

Prayers continue for troops, their families, friendlies caught in this mess and our country.

 

[bigwheelzip]

Which targets did we not hit in Afghanistan that we should have?

In December 2001, when the ninety special operators had Bin Laden bottled up in Tora Bora, and begged for the reinforcements that were standing by in the region, to finish him off. Leadership denied them, opting for the infamous "light footprint" of warfare, resulting in Bin Laden escaping and giving us twenty more years in-country.

 

[bigwheelzip]

I hear you, but Gulf War 1.

Except, that whole conflict probably wouldn't have happened but for giving Sadam the wrong message about Kuwait via ambassador Glaspie. Until then, they were our ally.

 

[waffles]

In December 2001, when the ninety special operators had Bin Laden bottled up in Tora Bora, and begged for the reinforcements that were standing by in the region, to finish him off. Leadership denied them, opting for the infamous "light footprint" of warfare, resulting in Bin Laden escaping and giving us twenty more years in-country.

Agreed, but that has nothing to do with the "bombing into the stoneage" discussion above mine that it was referring to.

On that topic though, it is just mind boggling to me that Rumsfelf and Franks denied the requests using the rationale that too many US troops would create a backlash, a feeling that was entirely accurate in every other case where this was ignored, but was followed in the one place and time where the use of more troops could have helped and spared us a fruitless counter-insurgency.

 

[waffles]

Except, that whole conflict probably wouldn't have happened but for giving Sadam the wrong message about Kuwait via ambassador Glaspie. Until then, they were our ally.

We can find any number of diplomatic failures leading to any war we've engaged in, but once the war was on, the US followed through and stopped at the appropriate point to declare a thorough victory. Ignoring the temptation to depose Saddam and involve ourselves in the type of ****show that came out of the 2003 Iraq invasion.

 

[bigwheelzip]

We can find any number of diplomatic failures ....

Going to war with an ally that was keeping Iran in check, and blunting their regional hegemony was high up on the list of gaffes we're still paying for.