What has happened to QC at Smith and Wesson?

[Dave Lively]

QC issues with S&W are nothing new. Before the internet there was little means of letting the world know of such problems...companies such as S&W simply repaired them under warranty and no one was the wiser.

Another factor is we often tend to look at the past through rose colored glasses, remembering the good and forgetting the bad. The good old days usually are not as good as we remember.

A few years ago I would have told that that while my S&W 41 is extremely picky about ammo it never had a serious problem. Until I was going through old gun boxes, opened the one my 41 came in 30+ years before and found the letter I wrote describing how the gun locked up solid on its second magazine before I sent it back to be repaired under warranty. The factory repaired the gun quickly and my memory of that had faded away being replaced with memories of home much I have enjoyed shooting it since then.

S&W does ship more defective guns now than they used to. But guns leaving the factory with defects is nothing new and not restricted to S&W. Over the past 40 years I have had to ship handguns from Browning, S&W, Springfield, Sig and Taurus back to the factory for repair. And that does not include guns that came with a defect I decided to live with or fixed myself. Maybe I should have expected to send that Taurus 22 revolver back to factory 3 times but I consider the other manufacturers on that list good companies.

We should hold S&W responsible when they ship a defective gun and its OK to complain about it. If people start hearing so many complaints about QA issues that it starts hurting sales maybe they will address them. After that one Taurus revolver I bought 35 years ago I have never bought another Taurus and never will. Gun enthusiasts are known for holding grudges. Once a gun maker gets a reputation for poor quality its really hard to regain the gun buying community's trust.

 

[GnarlsR2]

Why the number one legendary and most famous firearm manufacturer in the world would change its historical business model is difficult to understand.

 

[Tabby Lynn]

Another factor is we often tend to look at the past through rose colored glasses, remembering the good and forgetting the bad. The good old days usually are not as good as we remember.

A few years ago I would have told that that while my S&W 41 is extremely picky about ammo it never had a serious problem. Until I was going through old gun boxes, opened the one my 41 came in 30+ years before and found the letter I wrote describing how the gun locked up solid on its second magazine before I sent it back to be repaired under warranty. The factory repaired the gun quickly and my memory of that had faded away being replaced with memories of home much I have enjoyed shooting it since then.

S&W does ship more defective guns now than they used to. But guns leaving the factory with defects is nothing new and not restricted to S&W. Over the past 40 years I have had to ship handguns from Browning, S&W, Springfield, Sig and Taurus back to the factory for repair. And that does not include guns that came with a defect I decided to live with or fixed myself. Maybe I should have expected to send that Taurus 22 revolver back to factory 3 times but I consider the other manufacturers on that list good companies.

We should hold S&W responsible when they ship a defective gun and its OK to complain about it. If people start hearing so many complaints about QA issues that it starts hurting sales maybe they will address them. After that one Taurus revolver I bought 35 years ago I have never bought another Taurus and never will. Gun enthusiasts are known for holding grudges. Once a gun maker gets a reputation for poor quality its really hard to regain the gun buying community's trust.

One thing wrong with the theory of holding S&W accountable for a defective firearm is completely ignoring the fact that for every defect, there are probably hundreds, maybe thousands shipped that are perfect. All manufacturers have items that end up in the hands of the consumers that have defects. Look at automobiles and trucks. There are frequent recalls to repair life threatening defects that didn't show until the vehicle was released to the public. This is where the real testing begins. Would you forever swear off your Ford or Chevy because there was a defect that affected not just the one you drove off the lot, but every one of the thousands that was manufactured? Nope, you take it as a matter of course; it gets repaired at the manufacturer's expense and you move on. Let's be realistic. Things that you complain about is probably something that you overlook when purchasing some other firearms and consider them normal. Another thing to take into consideration is that the people who join these forums are probably the most picky of the pickiest, myself included. Be realistic in your expectations, nobody and nothing is perfect. We all have our little quirks.

 

[Tabby Lynn]

Why the number one legendary and most famous firearm manufacturer in the world would change its historical business model is difficult to understand.

I think that maybe you need to elaborate on this. What are you specifically talking about?

 

[GnarlsR2]

I think that maybe you need to elaborate on this. What are you specifically talking about?

With all the decades of evidence, facts, and proof regarding how a business succeeds, why a business would deliberately produce and sell a faulty firearm (via lack of quality control) is pathetically absurd. A person using a faulty drip coffee maker, a cell phone, or a big screen TV is not the going to cause death.

The owners of a company dictate the business philosophy, policies, and culture. There are only 2 ways to increase profit in a sales-driven business…. Increase revenue or decrease costs.

There are hundreds of books written on the subject of what makes a business successful. The research and details of what makes a company become the best in it’s industry in the 1985 book “In Search of Excellence” by Tom Peters is blatantly obvious. The 3 things that make a company great are Customer Service, Customer Service, and Customer Service.

Firearms and their use are an extremely unique product in the realm of consumerism. Up to 72% of gun owners say self-defense is the major reason for owning a firearm.

“AI Overview

While it's difficult to pinpoint a single, definitive percentage, poor product quality is a significant factor in business failures, with estimates suggesting it contributes to around 13-20% of failures. Many sources indicate that a substantial portion of businesses fail due to a combination of factors, and poor product quality often intertwines with other issues like inadequate market research, poor product-market fit, and ineffective marketing strategies.

Here's a breakdown of how poor product quality contributes to business failure:

• Customer Dissatisfaction:

Poor quality leads to negative customer experiences, which can result in product returns, negative reviews, and a damaged reputation, ultimately impacting sales.

• Loss of Trust:

A subpar product erodes customer trust, making it harder to attract and retain customers, especially in competitive markets.

• Reduced Sales and Revenue:

Unhappy customers are less likely to repurchase or recommend the product, leading to decreased revenue and potentially business failure.

• High Return Rates and Warranty Claims:

Poor quality often results in a higher number of returned products and warranty claims, which can be costly for businesses.

• Difficulty Scaling:

A product with quality issues is harder to scale because it requires more resources to manage returns, repairs, and customer complaints.

In conclusion, while poor product quality isn't the sole reason for failure, it is a major contributor, often alongside other business failings like poor marketing, financial management, or lack of market need.

That's just my worthless opinion.

 

[GnarlsR2]

I think that maybe you need to elaborate on this. What are you specifically talking about?

Thank you Tabby Lynn... you were reading my mind.

 

[Tabby Lynn]

With all the decades of evidence, facts, and proof regarding how a business succeeds, why a business would deliberately produce and sell a faulty firearm (via lack of quality control) is pathetically absurd. A person using a faulty drip coffee maker, a cell phone, or a big screen TV is not the going to cause death.

The owners of a company dictate the business philosophy, policies, and culture. There are only 2 ways to increase profit in a sales-driven business…. Increase revenue or decrease costs.

There are hundreds of books written on the subject of what makes a business successful. The research and details of what makes a company become the best in it’s industry in the 1985 book “In Search of Excellence” by Tom Peters is blatantly obvious. The 3 things that make a company great are Customer Service, Customer Service, and Customer Service.

Firearms and their use are an extremely unique product in the realm of consumerism. Up to 72% of gun owners say self-defense is the major reason for owning a firearm.

“AI Overview

While it's difficult to pinpoint a single, definitive percentage, poor product quality is a significant factor in business failures, with estimates suggesting it contributes to around 13-20% of failures. Many sources indicate that a substantial portion of businesses fail due to a combination of factors, and poor product quality often intertwines with other issues like inadequate market research, poor product-market fit, and ineffective marketing strategies.

Here's a breakdown of how poor product quality contributes to business failure:

• Customer Dissatisfaction:

Poor quality leads to negative customer experiences, which can result in product returns, negative reviews, and a damaged reputation, ultimately impacting sales.

• Loss of Trust:

A subpar product erodes customer trust, making it harder to attract and retain customers, especially in competitive markets.

• Reduced Sales and Revenue:

Unhappy customers are less likely to repurchase or recommend the product, leading to decreased revenue and potentially business failure.

• High Return Rates and Warranty Claims:

Poor quality often results in a higher number of returned products and warranty claims, which can be costly for businesses.

• Difficulty Scaling:

A product with quality issues is harder to scale because it requires more resources to manage returns, repairs, and customer complaints.

In conclusion, while poor product quality isn't the sole reason for failure, it is a major contributor, often alongside other business failings like poor marketing, financial management, or lack of market need.

That's just my worthless opinion.

During my years working in the firearms department at Cabelas one of the responsibilities we had was checking in new firearms when they arrived. We sold a lot of firearms, which included a lot of Smith and Wesson revolvers, semi automatic pistols and rifles. During my time there I checked thousands of firearms in, and probably at least a thousand if not more Smith and Wesson's. The process I used to check in firearms, and this applied to all firearms was to first check the serial number on the box against the serial number on the firearm itself. I then checked the firearm over to make sure that all the parts were there. (it wasn't unusual to find magazines missing especially from the lower priced firearms) function check the action making sure that it worked as it was supposed to. With revolvers I checked the cylinders, the locking and unlocking of the cylinders, the advance and lock up of the cylinders, the double action trigger pull for smoothness and a consistent smooth advance each time the hammer was pulled and finally the single action trigger pull. For semi autos it was first remove the magazine if one was in the firearm, lock the slide back and check the chamber. I would make sure that the firearm functioned as it was supposed to, slide moved freely, thumb safety, if installed worked, moving the slide slightly out of battery and making sure that the firearm would not fire, the trigger pull, the magazine fit and release. Once the check was completed we put the firearm back into the box. Prior to placing the firearm back into the box, and this went for all firearms, installed a trigger lock. Once that was done the box was taped shut and a tag signifying that the check in was complete to include the initials of the person who did the check in and safety check. Out of the thousands of Smith & Wesson firearms I checked in the worst problem found was that the fluorescent rod in the front sight of a Victory target 22 was missing. This is out of thousands of S&W firearms checked in.

Outside of Colt 1911s, which I never found any defects over the years, none of the other manufacturers quality was anywhere close to Smith and Wesson.

So if you want to complain, or profess your self said, "worthless opinion," feel free to do that, this is America and that is your constitutional right. My experience with S&W has shown that while problems, may exist, as they do in anything manufactured by anyone they are the exception, not the rule and are few and far in-between.

 

[Smoke]

What has happened to QC at Smith and Wesson?​

The same thing that's happened to Quality Control everywhere else. The Millennials who believe that their salary should be like a base pay that they get just for showing up, are taking over the workforce.

I participate in a couple of work-related forums on Facebook and reddit and the like, you be amazed at the number of the people that login just to ask how to beat the drug test.

Or the number of people who ask questions like "I was 2 hours late on my first day at work and I didn't call in, do you think they'll fire me?"

That's the actual question the guy asked.

I pity my grandchildren because that's the world that they're going to have to live in.

 

[Yendor357]

To the guys who state that one in a thousand Smiths are not perfect, I respect your opinion. However my personal experience has been vastly different. Maybe I’m just terribly unlucky.

And to the guy who state Smith quality is superior to that of Colt; Again my experience has been vastly different.

I really want to love the new Smiths like I do my old ones.
I can plug holes.
MIM is cool with me.
I don’t care where the firing pin is.

But dang it, your guns have to function, and the bullets can’t tumble.

 

[Tom S.]

But dang it, your guns have to function, and the bullets can’t tumble.

I dunno, tumbling bullets are supposed to be more debilitating.