What might a ban look like? Respectful discussion please...

[zip777]

Posted this in another biker forum. Also wanted perspectives in a firearm forum. Keep it on task....

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No doubt in my mind a ban of some sort is coming. I've read everything out there from "they're going to kick in your door" to "not much will happen"...

So what do YOU think a ban will look like?? Opinions on the question only please. Lets not bash each other over the head with second amendment arguments. We've kinda already done that. So....not what is needed...but what do you think will happen come January?? Respectful opinions please....

Go!

 

[packrat2]

I think 30 round AR-15 magazines will be banned and some sort of assault weapons ban...

 

[zip777]

"Some sort" being the operative phrase.

 

[CoMF]

I think the most likely outcome on the Federal level, failing all attempts at trying to appeal to logic and reason, is the reinstatement of the old Clinton-era "assault weapons ban" with a provision banning "high capacity" magazines and no sunset date. Ironically, current legally owned firearms that fit the description of the "ban" will have to be grandfathered in anyway as ex post facto laws are Constitutionally barred, which kind of defeats the whole purpose of reinstating said ban which is to remove those particular firearms from public circulation. In the end, all it will accomplish is create yet another scalper's market for "pre-ban" military pattern semi-auto rifles and their accessories.

Then again, I wouldn't put it past TPTB to use the same tortured logic they used to eviscerate the Fourth, Fifth and Sixth Amendments in order to get around that "limitation"... In fact, our current President is on record saying that he believes the U.S. Constitution to be a "flawed document."

 

[Steely Dan]

1.) Rifles like the AR15 banned. 2.) magazine capacities exceeding 10 rounds banned 3.) higher ammo tax 4.) extended period to actually take possession of purchased firearm. 5.) cessation of Internet ammo sales "Assault weapon" is a difficult term to define. People who want all guns banned would group many types of firearms under the definition of "assault weapon". Whatever happens, it will be an affront to the 2nd Amendment.

 

[snowwhite]

ITA that they will probably ban rifles like the AR-15 , M&P15 & magazines capacities not to exceed 10. So what's happening is my sons are running out and buying the 30 round capacity magazines before the ban. Me on the other hand, still can't make up my mind on any hand gun purchase. I'll only be choosing a revolver anyway and hopefully I'll never have to worry about a hand gun ban!

 

[VMaxSplat]

The original AWB listed several features of an assault weapon:

• semi auto
• detachable magazine
• grenade launcher (22mm muzzle device)
• flash hider
• folding or telescopic stock
• pistol grip
• bayonet lug

Two of these "evil" features were allowed on "post ban" guns. Obviously, for an AR, the pistol grip and detachable magazine were required at the expense of the other features. The problem is, that was a different era and they almost couldn't get the bill passed. The tragedy in CT has the left salivating. They believe this is the perfect storm and that no crisis should go to waste, but should be used to drive their agenda. I would not be a bit surprised to see them go for a more restrictive law than the original AWB. For instance, what if they only allowed one "evil" feature? The Constitution doesn't seem to mean much to these people.

 

[VMaxSplat]

I'll only be choosing a revolver anyway and hopefully I'll never have to worry about a hand gun ban!

You realize that the left has been pushing general gun control for years. To them a defensive carry pistol is a "Saturday Night Special", a deer rifle is a "Sniper Weapon", and an AR is the ultimate evil. Your revolver is by no means safe. The intent is to divide and conquer, ban them all. Make no mistake about that.

 

[zip777]

Good responses so far and I'm in agreement with nearly all comments. Also wonder if the "grandfather clause" will prohibit you from passing down your firearm to a grown child etc.... You pass on they melt down the firearm. Face it. Unless you purchased an AR second hand with CASH they know you have it.

 

[Harrison]

It may not even be a congressional ban. The ban may be in the form of an executive order, and could be draconian. There is nothing to protect us from such an EO. Congress has so far not acted on EOs, and the supreme court may do nothing. Several EOs have all ready been issued that are at best very questionable from a constitutional point of view and congress has done nothing. Only time will tell.

 

[zip777]

Even if the ban is an Executive Order which I believe it WILL be...I'm thinking current owners will not be effected. I think even Obama knows to enter homes and take what was legally purchased by law abiding citizens would have very very bad outcomes.

He could however say "take it outside your home and you can only carry 10 round mags". I could see them trying that.

 

[Checkman]

I think that the old AWB will be re-instated at the least. It could be that there will be an attempt to stop owners of "assault rifles" from passing them onto their grown children. There might be an attempt to have all assault rifles made after a certain date (why? who the heck knows. politics) have to be registered under the NFA. Or something like that. Perhaps there will be an attempt to prohibit the 5.56/.225 - though I don't know how likely that is.

At the very least there will be a reinstatement of the AWB with a few more details added on. But it won't be an easy process for the anti's. I do believe that.

Despite all the ridicule being heaped on the NRA right now by the media and the anti's (very very similar to what happened in 99. The "experts" were saying then that the NRA was vulnerable and crippled after Colombine) the NRA and gunowners (members and non-members) won't just lie down and roll over. There were politicians who had A and B ratings from the NRA deserting us after Colombine as well. This fight has just begun.

 

[zip777]

I think that the old AWB will be re-instated at the least. It could be that there will be an attempt to stop owners of "assault rifles" from passing them onto their grown children. There might be an attempt to have all assault rifles made after a certain date (why? who the heck knows. politics) have to be registered under the NFA. Or something like that. Perhaps there will be an attempt to prohibit the 5.56/.225 - though I don't know how likely that is.

At the very least there will be a reinstatement of the AWB with a few more details added on. But it won't be an easy process for the anti's. I do believe that.

Despite all the ridicule being heaped on the NRA right now by the media and the anti's (very very similar to what happened in 99. The "experts" were saying then that the NRA was vulnerable and crippled after Colombine) the NRA and gunowners (members and non-members) won't just lie down and roll over. There were politicians who had A and B ratings from the NRA deserting us after Colombine as well. This fight has just begun.

With 8000 new NRA members joining a day people do believe in their rights.

 

[edwardhartsock]

I, too think there will be an "assault weapons" ban of some type.They will include a ban on high cap mags, and require registration of AR's, AK's, etc. Much the same as they did with the Streetsweeper years ago.
What say you. Will you "register"?

Ed

 

[Stophel]

First, the banning of the manufacture and sale of "high capacity magazines". Then, a ban on the manufacture and sale of guns with the shoulder thing that goes up. Owners of these guns and mags will be "grandfathered in", and allowed to keep them... for a while. Private sales of firearms will then be required to submit to a background check (meaning registration). Heavy taxes on guns and ammo and reloading components could come at any time. "Assault weapons" will become non-transferable. When a gunowner dies, his black guns will become contraband, and must be relinquished to the authorities. Massive "gun buyback programs" will be put in place on a national level. Then, all gunowners will be required to be licensed, many, of course, will be rejected for licensing. Their guns--all of them-- will be required to be registered. Soon afterwards, the dreaded black guns and other "high capacity arms" will be outlawed once and for all, and they will be confiscated.

After all this, probably the United States will officially be under the control of the United Nations (or some other named NWO organization), and at some point, all privately owned arms will be banned and confiscated, with the same thing happening in all other countries under international control.

Along the way, some States MAY make feeble attempts to nullify and oppose some of the gun control (and many other tyrannies) coming from Washington and New York, but for the most part they won't actually DO anything about it. Eventually, one or two MIGHT even secede (but I doubt it), but they will quickly be forced into submission. Through all this, a FEW individuals and groups will actually resist and fight, most will be killed.

I believe all this will happen. No doubt in my mind. It's just a matter of time. Definitely within the next 50 years. Probably within the next 20.

 

[STCM(SW)]

This is the list I have seen so far, and theres more to add I'm sure...
Rifles (or copies or duplicates):

M1 Carbine

Sturm Ruger Mini-14

AR-15

Bushmaster XM15

Armalite M15

AR-10

Thompson 1927

Thompson M1

AK

AKM

AKS

AK-47

AK-74

ARM

MAK90

NHM 90

NHM 91

SA 85

SA 93

VEPR

Olympic Arms PCR

AR70

Calico Liberty

Dragunov SVD Sniper Rifle or DragunovSVU

Fabrique National FN/FAL

FN/LAR, or FNC

Hi-Point20Carbine

HK-91, HK-93

HK-94

HK-PSG-1

Thompson 1927 Commando

Kel-Tec Sub Rifle

Saiga

SAR-8

SAR-4800

SKS with detachable magazine

SLG 95

SLR 95 or 96

Steyr AU

Tavor

Uzi

Galil and Uzi Sporter

Galil Sporter or Galil Sniper Rifle (Galatz)

Pistols (or copies or duplicates):

Calico M-110

MAC-10

MAC-11

MPA3

Olympic Arms OA

TEC-9,

TEC-DC9,

TEC-22 Scorpion or AB-10

Uzi

Shotguns (or copies or duplicates):

Armscor 30 BG

SPAS 12 or LAW 12

Striker 12

Streetsweeper
Catch-all category (for anything missed or new designs):

A semiautomatic rifle that accepts a detachable magazine and has:

(i) a folding or telescoping stock,

(ii) a threaded barrel,

(iii) a pistol grip (which includes ANYTHING that can serve as a grip, see below),

(iv) a forward grip; or a barrel shroud.

Any semiautomatic rifle with a fixed magazine that can accept more than

10 rounds (except tubular magazine .22 rim fire rifles).

A semiautomatic pistol that has the ability to accept a detachable magazine, and has:

(i) a second pistol grip,

(ii) a threaded barrel,

(iii) a barrel shroud or

(iv) can accept a detachable magazine outside of the pistol grip, and

(v) a semiautomatic pistol with a fixed magazine that can accept more than 10 rounds.

A semiautomatic shotgun with:

(i) a folding or telescoping stock,

(ii) a pistol grip (see definition below),

(iii) the ability to accept a detachable magazine or a fixed magazine capacity of more than 5 rounds, and

(iv) a shotgun with a revolving cylinder.

Frames or receivers for the above are included, along with conversion kits.

Attorney General gets carte blanche to ban guns at will: Under the proposal, the U.S. Attorney General can add any "semiautomatic rifle or shotgun originally designed for military or law enforcement use, or a firearm based on the design of such a firearm, that is not particularly suitable for sporting purposes, as determined by the Attorney General."

 

[Sebago Son]

All I see on the immediate horizon is one hell of a fight....

Unless the current transient in the white house wants to commit political suicide, he won't use a presidential decree.

If he does, after the mid-terms in 2014, he can plan on losing even more ground in house and perhaps even the senate. They remember what happened in 1994 & 1996.

If they pass anything at all it will be window-dressing and as in the past, it will be ineffective, leaving the door open for even more draconian measures in the future...

Drew

 

[TangoFoxtrot]

I think all hig cap. mags will be banned and AR type rifles will be as well..bottom line! I don't think the NRA will be able to do anything about it either.

 

[nipster]

Even if the ban is an Executive Order which I believe it WILL be...I'm thinking current owners will not be effected. I think even Obama knows to enter homes and take what was legally purchased by law abiding citizens would have very very bad outcomes.

He could however say "take it outside your home and you can only carry 10 round mags". I could see them trying that.

If they do it through executive order, it will get struck down faster than the ink will dry

 

[ladder13]

Nothing's being taken away, we were assured by some in a previous thread.

http://smith-wessonforum.com/2nd-amendment-forum/257487-letter-sent-obama-un-gun-treaty.html

 

[Moonman]

The NRA needs to find a better public speaker, one that's also charistmatic in nature.

 

[C Broad Arrow]

One thing that gun control brought to Canada was a barrel length restriction that eliminated new sales of guns with a barrel length of less than 4 inches.

It was part of the "package" to eliminate "Saturday Night Specials", but effectively removed the ability for people to carried concealed.

Would that happen in the US? I don't know, but it is the insidious nature of politicians to tack things on at the last minute.

Now having said that the inability to solve the "Fiscal Cliff" issue actually bodes well for us. It demonstrates how divided things truely are and it indicates (to me anyway) that it gives the NRA and those who still believe in the Constitution the time necessary to get past the events of Dec 14 and have calm restored to the issue. The mid-terms are only 23 months away and with the Republicans holding the House it is unlikely that with the fiscal issues etc, that the POTUS has a lot of political currency he could burn on the gun issue. There will be a lot of political posturing, and blaming the NRA and all those red neck neanderthal gun owners, but in the end I doubt anything will change. That is not meant to say that the NRA should sit back. Wayne's press conference was the right step and message.. Now the NRA has to press to brings about the types of measures it spoke of and be seen by the nation as working to preserve the 2A but also reduce the risk of madmen getting guns. If we knew someone was a terrorist, we would take steps to insure he did not get a gun. A similar commitment needs to be demonstrated with regard to those that would murder children.

The issue will start with guns in the classroom and end with more intense background checks. The NRA should idenitfy those teachers across the nation already carrying to protect their students and run a media campaign showing that it is already being done. 35 states allow this. Information about the effectiveness of this policy needs to be communicated to the public.

The NRA also has to come us with a number of recommendations about background checks and screening for mental ilness. It should also establish guidelines for safe storage in homes where someone has experienced mental health problems, domestic abuse or marital breakdowns. Are these measures in the long run effective? I don't know. But I can't help but think that if Adam's mom had a gun safe for storage we may not be having this discussion today.

The issue as Wayne well knows is now more PR than anything else. But the NRA has to be seen as trying to be part of the solution in order to win the hearts and minds that do not understand the 2A and have lost touch with its reason for being.

 

[StatesRightist]

You guys go ahead and do your best the sky is falling imitations. In case you've missed it, the public furor is dying down already. New cycles come and news cycles go. By the time Congress gets back in session the public clamor is going to be greatly reduced.

D.C. can't even get a bill they all agree we need on "the fiscal cliff" passed, but the Dems from gun states and the Repubs are going to all get together and rush off to commit political suicide together......whatever you say.

Reality is this and I'll take bets...the Repubs and Gun State Dems stall for awhile doing studies....then about March, some watered down version of the prior AWB will get passed, along with a huge increase in Mental Health funding to soothe the libs and that will be that.

If you are unlucky enough to live in NY, Communistfornia etc....then you can plan on taking it in the shorts on a state by state basis.

Obama can try doing it through Executive Orders, but they'll get struck down quickly.

This is not to say they are not going to continue to plot to get our guns. JOIN THE NRA, it's our best defense.

I was a guilty as you guys of working myself up, needing TUMS etc sure they were going to come for my guns, but having a little time to cool off, I think that's unfounded.

Of course if they stage another shooting a la Colorado, all bets are off.

 

[nipster]

All I know is based on what I have seen in the last week, there are now tens of thousands of AR's in the hands of people who cannot use them. Not sure how good that is.

These are the people driving up the prices.

Magazines are a different story, but I would venture to guess than at least 50% of the AR's bought this week cant even spell AR, let alone shoot one safely or accurately.

 

[zip777]

You guys go ahead and do your best the sky is falling imitations. In case you've missed it, the public furor is dying down already. New cycles come and news cycles go. By the time Congress gets back in session the public clamor is going to be greatly reduced.

D.C. can't even get a bill they all agree we need on "the fiscal cliff" passed, but the Dems from gun states and the Repubs are going to all get together and rush off to commit political suicide together......whatever you say.

Reality is this and I'll take bets...the Repubs and Gun State Dems stall for awhile doing studies....then about March, some watered down version of the prior AWB will get passed, along with a huge increase in Mental Health funding to soothe the libs and that will be that.

If you are unlucky enough to live in NY, Communistfornia etc....then you can plan on taking it in the shorts on a state by state basis.

Obama can try doing it through Executive Orders, but they'll get struck down quickly.

This is not to say they are not going to continue to plot to get our guns. JOIN THE NRA, it's our best defense.

I was a guilty as you guys of working myself up, needing TUMS etc sure they were going to come for my guns, but having a little time to cool off, I think that's unfounded.

Of course if they stage another shooting a la Colorado, all bets are off.

After listening to more DC rhetoric I'm leaning your way. I do believe there will be lot of focus on "high capacity mags". Will be interesting to see how that is defined.

 

[zip777]

All I know is based on what I have seen in the last week, there are now tens of thousands of AR's in the hands of people who cannot use them. Not sure how good that is.

These are the people driving up the prices.

Magazines are a different story, but I would venture to guess than at least 50% of the AR's bought this week cant even spell AR, let alone shoot one safely or accurately.

This is a REAL concern. How many first time owners will try and use them for home defense not knowing that ammunition choice is critical! Wondering how many bought m855 ammo that will shoot through bad guys...as well as walls and neighbors houses. It is a scary thought. This doesn't even address them accidentally shooting themselves or other innocents because they have no concept how to safely use one. How many will just read the manual once load the firearm put it in the closet and never practice? Frightening.

 

[kennyb]

Nothing's being taken away, we were assured by some in a previous thread.

http://smith-wessonforum.com/2nd-amendment-forum/257487-letter-sent-obama-un-gun-treaty.html

dang mike...looks like the NRA isn't"making stuff up huh?"

 

[jtpur]

Assuming a ban is passed, I think, any magazine over ten rounds, maybe even five. That any "assault style" rifle or pistol with over 10 rounds, will be banned on passage.

Effective some date later, any ,magazine over ten rounds will be illegal to own, posses or use. Any pre ban gun after. A certain date will be illegal to,transport, use or posses. Do not think for a minute that a retro active law will not be upheld by the courts. By the time it gets to the court/s the makeup of the court will be very anti gun. The Constitution will not be a barrier to gun control.

 

[VMaxSplat]

The NRA needs to find a better public speaker, one that's also charistmatic in nature.

Maybe, but you do realize that Wayne LaPierre has been a tireless champion of the 2nd Ammendment for many years, right? He has done waaaaaaay more than most to protect our gun rights from endless assaults by the Dims.

 

[EdNewman]

Interesting that the uneducated view the .223/5.56 as a high powered ammo. The 30-06 is twice as powerful and some of the.50 cals have 10x the energy. Everyone should call their state and federal representatives and offer to help educate them. Offer to take them to a gun store or range and show them the difference. Help them to realize that they need to focus on illegal guns not the legal ones.