WHY I ABANDONED MY BELOVED M60 AFTER 40 YEARS

That's exactly what you're doing with the contact example, which I'll give you, is a benefit to a J frame that is real. How often it matters is a massive what if, and the solution is push off or pull back slightly. I agree on your "facts" and stats that J frame is going to be enough, as would a derringer or an anti-robber good luck charm. I do disagree with the notion that there aren't real, overriding benefits to the modern autos over J frames in the same size class. It's ok to not like or need technological advances, but it's a thread about moving to a better platform and I'm really not seeing a legit reason to be dragged back into the old stuff.

And yes, I have thankfully done some force on force stuff including grappling. The out of battery contact shot in an auto is real, though less prevalent than I hear in these arguments and easily preventable, as is the grab the cylinder of the revolver that gets bandied about in return.

Newer doesn’t always equal better, but in no way am I dismissing technological advances. My first gun was an auto and I own more autos than I do revolvers. My default home defense gun is a high capacity Glock, depending on the circumstances. I would never advocate for a snub revolver as a primary sidearm for military or police, although I would and always have absolutely recommended a snub to LEO’s as a back-up weapon. It’s because the circumstances are generally much different when the back-up weapon is utilized and have more in common with civilian self-defense than do the more proactive aspects of police work and I think the snub offers advantages for the specific needs of civilian concealed carry. Both auto or revolver are just tools to me, and I use both choosing whichever tool is appropriate for the specific job.

I know of no one who has an easy, reliable and repeatable solution to the problems with autos choking in ECQ that works well for a majority of people. A lot of folks claim to have, but they generally fall apart when the pressure is cranked up.

The vast majority violence occurs at contact distance, but most people don’t carry firearms, but we do still see numerous documented contact shooting incidents on a relatively regular basis. And I Imagine we would see more if more people carried and had some training in integrated H2H skills, but most people lack the ability to defend themselves effectively while accessing a weapon during sudden close-quarter assaults.

What we don’t see with any regularity is armed civilians FORCED into protracted gun fights with multiple armed gang members.
 
Me too. I now have two P3656s and a 365XL to carry. The 438 was really starting to hurt.
Revolvers will still always be my favorites and they are what I shoot and enjoy the most. The bigger ones anyway.
I shoot the plastics to remain familiar with them.
 
The 365 weighs the same as a S&W M640.

For me, M640 is too heavy to carry in the front pocket of shorts. It swings back and forth and slaps the thigh.

Since it's too heavy to carry in the pocket of shorts, I reserve it more for IWB or OWB.

Once you go to the belt, you might as well have a bigger gun that is easier to shoot.

For me? In the pocket, S&W M&P340. On the belt, Glock 26.

I carried both the M640 and the G26 in the pocket for years. That was work. Much different clothing.

The Sig is a marvel, that doesn't really solve any problem for me.
 
Last edited:
After 40+ years of carrying a 2" M60 and then a M60-7 I retired it in exchange for a Sig P365 9mm Micro Pistol. Prior to my ownership of the tiny Sig, I did not own any "plastic pistols" and was relatively content with my Chef's Special. I had never had any issues with it but as I got older I just disliked the
"uncomfortableness" of shooting SD loads - and I know practice is always essential!

Each time I took the M60 to the Range for a practice session I would dislike shooting it more and more - especially when shooting a few +P's for familiarity as that is what I carried in it. I did not use rubber style grips (yes they do reduce recoil) but they are large, bulky and not pocket carry friendly.

I was at our Club's Range about 3 years ago when one of my good friends showed me his brand new P365. After shooting about 50 rounds from it I fell in love - lol. It was super accurate with great night sights, soft recoiling, supper easy to shoot, lighter than my M60-7, thinner and smaller too. After seeing it held 10+1 rounds (more than double my M60-7) and could be easily reloaded in a few seconds - I could no longer not own one.

I waited a few months for my LGS to get one of the new upgraded versions in and I bought it. I have to say that after 3,500 rounds of all types of ammo put through it (including hand loads) it has been totally reliable, a pleasure to shoot, small, lightweight, compact and as accurate as any full sized large pistol (better than many). The fact that it more than doubled the on-board rounds and together with the great 9mm self defense loads being made today - I don't think I could go back to EDC-ing a revolver.

I did have to send it back to Sig once because I noticed the glow in the dark front sight vile had gone missing. They sent me a call tag, I UPS'd it to them on a Monday. They replaced the front sight, test fired it, sighted it in, went over the entire gun and I had it back 3 days later on Thursday. Because I did not include a magazine with it when I sent it in, they used a new one and sent me that as a bonus when it was returned. While the Sig P365 was out for sight repair I put the M60-7 back into service but felt like I was at a huge disadvantage. Thankfully that only lasted 3 days!

This is still my only "plastic gun" with no plans for another one but I have to say sometimes technology just blows away even the best of yesteryear.
I could have written your story with the exception was I carried a 3” K frame for years. The P365 is the only “plastic” gun I ever picked up and felt right immediately. I still carry a 3” K at times under a jacket but my 365 is in my pocket everywhere I go
 
If you must carry a small revolver, such as a j frame, a solution may be to carry three of them, for a New York reload.
 
I cannot warm up to the newer plastic sigs.
Now the P238 i really like. A big 1911 fan here.

Understand that I did not buy the Sig P365 because it was great looking nor was I attracted to its lines. I did not buy it because I am a plastic collector, because it was the latest-greatest offering or in vogue.

The only reason I bought it was because it holds more than double the rounds of my M60, is lighter, less bulky, smaller, easy & fast to reload, is way way easier to shoot and last but not least it is incredibly accurate. The Night Sights are just a bonus here.
 
If you must carry a small revolver, such as a j frame, a solution may be to carry three of them, for a New York reload.

Carrying 3 Revolvers is not for me. Unless I had to purposely & knowingly go into harms way, I would not normally carry two guns on a daily basis. Hence the appeal of the P365.
 
I'm for all intents and purposes a civilian but i have to ask what is the most common activity taught at CCW classes. It's not shooting, it's not aim and sight alignment, it's not reloading, The most common activity taught is how to clear a FTF. Instructors are constantly emphizing how to clear a failure to fire. They go into it in such detail and so often I get bored with the class. I have never had anyone suggest my .38's need a
"drill" to clear a FTF. All they say is, "Hey tiger pull the trigger again."

Pity the poor civilian who gets themselves into a tight situation and has to clear a FTF and doesn't have the time. Is such likely to happen, if it wasn't then why the drill.

I rely on my big autos and even my 9's to function first time every time but to be honest the idea they might not, does give me pause. That said, I have used them enough that I consider them to be utterly reliable for that "first time every time" event. JMB knew what he was about and since all my big autos (even the 9's) are based on his design I can thusly rely on them.
 
Last edited:
Another interesting discussion thread

Chief38, you wrote such a nice and compelling description for your decision to go with the 365. Bravo!

I did not buy it because I am a plastic collector

Just a comment that, while I do not have one (yet) myself, from what I read the Sig 365 has an all steel removable internal chassis that includes the steel rails the slide rides over. To me the 365 is not really a plastic pistol as the plastic part is just the user replaceable grip assembly - correct?

Having said that this discussion reminded me maybe I should try to experiment with a 365 on my own. I rented one in the past once and did not impress me (I did not shoot it that much better than my carry revolver) but maybe I did not shoot it long enough or I was a bit biased.

These days seems worst time to buy a new gun but fortunately Sig makes these in large quantities (did they already sell over 1 million yet?) so just maybe I might soon get to own one too.
 
Ask yourself : how many shots have you had to fire in self defense as a non leo and non military individual?

Then carry a j frame with confidence.


I went the opposite way. After years of carrying glocks and 1911s I went with small lightweight j and k frames. I don't work with money. I'm not high risk. I have fired one shot in self defense in the 35 years of hand gun ownership.


I love my revolvers. Carry what you want but striker fired doesnt do it for me. I also broke my shooting hand bad in a sports related injury and have bad arthritis now after reconstruction. Still love da revolvers
 
Last edited:
To carry the math a step further, a back pocket mag case with two 15s for my XL gives me...let me get my calculator...43 vs. 10.


Yep.

When I can't carry G19, I'm carrying P365. Eleven in the gun, 15 more in the stick mag in my other pocket. There's 26 rounds on tap in a tiny package. Vs. 5 rounds packing a J-frame? No contest.
 

Latest posts

Back
Top