Why Not Have A Safety On An M+P ?

[Ed45]

You know, there have been instances of bad guys taking guns away from even skilled professionals. There have been cases where a weapoon like the H&K P7 (squeeze cocker) was taken but not understood by the bad guy who could not figure out how to fire it. A discreet safety like that on the M&P is probably a good thing. I use and am comfortable with mine.

 

[Deadeye Dick]

... I use and am comfortable with mine.

And that's all that really matters.

 

[kris7047th]

So .. how many of you DON'T keep one in the chamber because you think it's unsafe?

JMOP .. I think the safety adds one more step before firing when a mili second could be crucial to save my life. I could be faced with more than one armed BG, or pull the trigger and Ooops .. I forgot to disengage the safety. I just don't want to have that in my way. I train and practice finger off the trigger until I want to fire. That is my manual safety.

But you all do what YOU feel is safe. I choose to do what I feel will best serve me, and my guns don't have safeties on them if I am given the choice. The ones that do, I don't use them (except my PMR30 .. that gun is my backpack gun and it has a light trigger)

 

[kbm6893]

Bill Jordan, the legendary Marine, Border Patrol agent, survivor of countless shootouts, and creator of the K frame Magnum, shot and killed a man in his office with a model 19 that he thought was unloaded. Think it can't be you? Think again. The most dangerous thing about a firearm is some Chairborne Ranger who hinks it WON'T happen to you.

 

[kris7047th]

Bill Jordan, the legendary Marine, Border Patrol agent, survivor of countless shootouts, and creator of the K frame Magnum, shot and killed a man in his office with a model 19 that he thought was unloaded. Think it can't be you? Think again. The most dangerous thing about a firearm is some Chairborne Ranger who hinks it WON'T happen to you.

That is why Rule #1 Always treat a gun as if it is loaded. CHECK first before ... Rule #2 Finger OFF the trigger unless you are ready to fire at a target.

It is habit for me to have my carry weapons loaded. I may not have time or ability to rack with an encounter with a BG. I treat ALL of my guns accordingly.

Bill Jordan screwed up .. didn't follow the rules of proper gun handling. That can happen to anyone if they allow themselves to get too lackadaisical.

 

[Silversmok3]

snip
Bill Jordan screwed up .. didn't follow the rules of proper gun handling. That can happen to anyone ....snip

"Lackadaisical" has nothing to do with it.

An owner of a Glock once suffered a negligent discharge.Here's the rub:He ejected the mag, racked the slide, and nothing came out. Racking the slide again for safety purposes, nothing came out and he was satisfied all was well and depressed the trigger for field strip.

Why did he get a BANG that time? Because his extractor failed, and wasn't grabbing the chambered round when the slide was manually cycled.

He followed the "rules". He followed the steps. Gun still went bang when he didn't want it to.

In a world where 100% firearm safety can be established, then we can rely on our own wits. We don't live in a world where 100% of anything can be assured, except that Murphy's Law is 100% going to show up uninvited. Should Mr. Murphy pay me a visit, a manual safety is one more means of insuring his visit isn't a painful one.

 

[Lost Lake]

I guess that Glock guy forgot to check the chamber.... Another rule to live by.

I have no problems with any of my safeties. None at all. They are automatic for me. Safeties I think allow a lighter trigger pull because without one you should have a long hard pull (IMHO). If the M&P's came with a safety and a 3 pound trigger I'd get one!

Where I see safeties causing problems is when people trust them. They point the gun at someone kidding around, saying the safety is on. They practice pointing and pulling the trigger at things they don't want to shoot and the gun goes off because they 'thought the safety was on'. They leave a loaded weapon sit on the bench because the safety is on.

These types of things are not done with guns that don't have safeties. If you have no safety you treat your gun the same every time you hold it. It is hot all the time.

Please note I always treat every weapon as if it were loaded, and that's what I teach and preach and preach and preach.

Never trust a safety and you will be safer. I have nothing against safeties, and agree they can be wonderful tools.

As far as taking time to disengage at a moment of need, I don't buy that. I believe training will convince anyone of that. Or grouse hunting...

 

[kbm6893]

Anyone who points a gun at someone or something that they don't intend to shoot, just because the safety is on, is a monumental a-hole and needs to have that gun taken from him. Maybe we could put this whole thing to bed if we didn't allow some goofball with ZERO training to buy a gun and leave with it. I remember one guy in a gunshop right after the big northeast blackout in 2003 (maybe 2004) who was leaving with a pistol grip Mossberg 500. He asked the clerk as he was ringing it up "where does the clip go?". The clerk showed him how the shells are put into the magazine tube. Another headline news story waiting to happen.

 

[Lost Lake]

Anyone who points a gun at someone or something that they don't intend to shoot, just because the safety is on, is a monumental a-hole and needs to have that gun taken from him. AGREED!!

Maybe we could put this whole thing to bed if we didn't allow some goofball with ZERO training to buy a gun and leave with it. I remember one guy in a gunshop right after the big northeast blackout in 2003 (maybe 2004) who was leaving with a pistol grip Mossberg 500. He asked the clerk as he was ringing it up "where does the clip go?". The clerk showed him how the shells are put into the magazine tube. Another headline news story waiting to happen.

WOW! Unbelievable! That is scary.....

 

[bp231986]

O hey heres a safety idea......DONT PULL THE TRIGGER UNLESS YOU INTEND TO DISCHARGE THE FIREARM AND DESTROY WHAT THE GUN IS AIMING AT!!!! wow that sound like such a smart idea....should i patent it? I would like to think that most of us would be smart enough to know our weapon,know how to handle it properly and have trained our minds to understand the Responsibility we have as gun owners and the understanding that a gun is always loaded no matter what. Respect your fellow gun owners, respect your gun and respect yourself.

 

[enfield]

I like a safety on a hunting long gun, but not on a carry pistol.

However, if you like safeties on your carry pistols, be my guest. But let's make 'em both ways.

 

[kbm6893]

O hey heres a safety idea......DONT PULL THE TRIGGER UNLESS YOU INTEND TO DISCHARGE THE FIREARM AND DESTROY WHAT THE GUN IS AIMING AT!!!! wow that sound like such a smart idea....should i patent it? I would like to think that most of us would be smart enough to know our weapon,know how to handle it properly and have trained our minds to understand the Responsibility we have as gun owners and the understanding that a gun is always loaded no matter what. Respect your fellow gun owners, respect your gun and respect yourself.

And yet there are hundreds of AD's a year, some by cops, soldiers, and experienced shooters. even professional race car drivers get into car accidents every now and then. And there are MANY gun owners out there who have NO idea how to really handle a gun. A good friend of mine had his XD9 in his sock drawer with the mag on the upper shelf in his closet and a round chambered. It sat like that for 2 years. he didn't realize you could fire a round with the mag out Good thing his 7 year old son never got to it. (or maybe he did and just didn't depress the grip safety. Then again, lots of people hate that, too).

 

[kris7047th]

Anyone who points a gun at someone or something that they don't intend to shoot, just because the safety is on, is a monumental a-hole and needs to have that gun taken from him. YES!!!Maybe we could put this whole thing to bed if we didn't allow some goofball with ZERO training to buy a gun and leave with it. I remember one guy in a gunshop right after the big northeast blackout in 2003 (maybe 2004) who was leaving with a pistol grip Mossberg 500. He asked the clerk as he was ringing it up "where does the clip go?". The clerk showed him how the shells are put into the magazine tube. Another headline news story waiting to happen.

Use your BRAIN to keep you safe, not gun safeties.

 

[Maddmax]

I have 5 M&P's and only one ( My 9 Shield), has the manual safety. I have a Commander and a High Stand with safeties. I prefer and carry the M&P's with-out them. It's called Finger Discipline AND using the proper holsters. My finger NEVER goes on the trigger until I'm ready to fire.

 

[kris7047th]

And yet there are hundreds of AD's a year, some by cops, soldiers, and experienced shooters. even professional race car drivers get into car accidents every now and then. And there are MANY gun owners out there who have NO idea how to really handle a gun. A good friend of mine had his XD9 in his sock drawer with the mag on the upper shelf in his closet and a round chambered. It sat like that for 2 years. he didn't realize you could fire a round with the mag out Good thing his 7 year old son never got to it. (or maybe he did and just didn't depress the grip safety. Then again, lots of people hate that, too).

Why everyone should READ the manual, and learn to routinely press check

 

[kbm6893]

Why everyone should READ the manual, and learn to routinely press check

You're right, but not everyone DOES, and there are people who vociferously defend their rights NOT to.

 

[kris7047th]

"Lackadaisical" has nothing to do with it.

An owner of a Glock once suffered a negligent discharge.Here's the rub:He ejected the mag, racked the slide, and nothing came out. Racking the slide again for safety purposes, nothing came out and he was satisfied all was well and depressed the trigger for field strip.

Why did he get a BANG that time? Because his extractor failed, and wasn't grabbing the chambered round when the slide was manually cycled.

He followed the "rules". He followed the steps. Gun still went bang when he didn't want it to.

In a world where 100% firearm safety can be established, then we can rely on our own wits. We don't live in a world where 100% of anything can be assured, except that Murphy's Law is 100% going to show up uninvited. Should Mr. Murphy pay me a visit, a manual safety is one more means of insuring his visit isn't a painful one.

You are supposed to press check and LOOK. He would have seen that round chambered.

 

[kris7047th]

You're right, but not everyone DOES, and there are people who vociferously defend their rights NOT to.

Then they should suffer the consequences should they screw up, and not blame the gun.

 

[kbm6893]

Then they should suffer the consequences should they screw up, and not blame the gun.

No problem, but sometimes the moron doesn't take the bullet, the kid playing in the playground down the street does. I'm sure the parents of that child take comfort knowing the idiot was barely trained on the weapon he chose to carry.

 

[kris7047th]

No problem, but sometimes the moron doesn't take the bullet, the kid playing in the playground down the street does. I'm sure the parents of that child take comfort knowing the idiot was barely trained on the weapon he chose to carry.

You can't fix stupid. I believe that it should be mandatory that people should get training to own a firearm, especially if they have never owned/fired a gun before. I know that goes against the 2A. But it was written in times when every household had firearms and taught children to respect them. That hasn't been the case for decades, and that was my situation growing up. When I bought my first gun, I did not fire it until I had someone to mentor me, and eventually a well known instructor, high up in the industry took me under his wing, taught me a great deal. I continue to take classes through his company. Unbelievable how many guys who have hunted all of their lives get a handgun and don't know how to properly handle it .. hold a semi auto wrong, how they stand incorrectly .. accidents waiting.