Wisconsin CCW Incidents

[bobkarno]

So, we have had concealed carry in WI for 10 months now. And aside from the Aldi incident. I have not seen, or can't recall any other stories involving permit holders being in the news. I know the liberal media was praying for us to be starting fire-fights at every traffic accident so they could have their opinions vindicated. But as usual, they were wrong. I also know that unless there is a discharge or witnesses, a smart person would not report an incident, lest they wanted to be treated as a criminal and have their weapon confiscated until they were proven innocent. I'm not asking for anyone to out themselves here. I just want to know if people have seen things in their news.

Sent from my Kindle Fire using Tapatalk 2

 

[cshoff]

Not reporting an incident in which you pulled your firearm could prove to be very troublesome for you - even if no shots were fired and there were no third-party witnesses close by. You might find that the "bad guy", feeling bad that you deprived him of his "right" to victimize you, would be so arrogant as to call the police and report that it was YOU who tried to victimize him, and that you threatened him at gun point.

He would conveniently leave out the fact that you did this in defense to his attempt to try to perpetrate a crime against you, of course. And sure enough, when police come out to investigate, they find you with a firearm and find your story; "I didn't want to report the fact that I pulled my gun in self defense because I didn't want to be treated as a criminal and have my firearm confiscated until I was proven innocent.", to not be a very compelling one. While it may not result in actual prosecution, it might very well result in a bad couple of days worth of your life that you'll never get back.

Seen a case where this happened to a guy in a road rage incident a few years back.

 

[bobkarno]

If you read the works of John Lott, specifically "More Guns: Less Crime" you will see that he surmises through statistical evidence that thousands of self defense incidents go unreported every day. If you could site some more specific cases of what you describe happening I may be willing to change my behavior were I ever to find myself in that situation. But I think such cases are extremely rare. I don't want this thread to be a debate about calling the cops, I am just looking for information on CC incidents. But, I would also add that with over 100,000 permits issued and 10 months of people carrying here in the state there are probably a fair amount of events which have gone unreported because there just aren't any I'm seeing in the news. And I live in the Milwaukee metro area.

 

[cshoff]

If you read the works of John Lott, specifically "More Guns: Less Crime" you will see that he surmises through statistical evidence that thousands of self defense incidents go unreported every day.

I'm not arguing that. I suspect that is an accurate summation. But it is a summation that has absolutely nothing to do with my reply above.

If you could site some more specific cases of what you describe happening I may be willing to change my behavior were I ever to find myself in that situation. But I think such cases are extremely rare. I don't want this thread to be a debate about calling the cops, I am just looking for information on CC incidents. But, I would also add that with over 100,000 permits issued and 10 months of people carrying here in the state there are probably a fair amount of events which have gone unreported because there just aren't any I'm seeing in the news. And I live in the Milwaukee metro area.

Perhaps if you could cite some specific cases where a person has pulled/presented/displayed a firearm in self defense, and even though no shots were fired, he was treated like a criminal, had his firearm confiscated, and been forced to "prove his innocence", then you might have a legitimate reason to maintain your behavior. You see how this works?

Bottom line: It is illogical to complain about crime and/or complain about being the victim of a crime, when you can't even be bothered to actually report a crime that happens. Frankly, I would much rather the police be out there looking for this guy that I inevitably didn't have to shoot so they can perhaps spare his next target from becoming a victim, than to have him roaming the streets as if nothing ever happened. Furthermore, I would much rather affirm my defense up front, than to have to try to justify my failure to report the crime and my use of (display of) a firearm later when it becomes his word against mine. YMMV.

 

[The Big D]

I am rarely in agreement with cshoff, but his post here is absolutely spot on.

Every single occasion of my personal USE of a gun has been reported /documented. That will forever be the case. Period.

Be safe.

I'm not arguing that. I suspect that is an accurate summation. But it is a summation that has absolutely nothing to do with my reply above.



Perhaps if you could cite some specific cases where a person has pulled/presented/displayed a firearm in self defense, and even though no shots were fired, he was treated like a criminal, had his firearm confiscated, and been forced to "prove his innocence", then you might have a legitimate reason to maintain your behavior. You see how this works?

Bottom line: It is illogical to complain about crime and/or complain about being the victim of a crime, when you can't even be bothered to actually report a crime that happens. Frankly, I would much rather the police be out there looking for this guy that I inevitably didn't have to shoot so they can perhaps spare his next target from becoming a victim, than to have him roaming the streets as if nothing ever happened. Furthermore, I would much rather affirm my defense up front, than to have to try to justify my failure to report the crime and my use of (display of) a firearm later when it becomes his word against mine. YMMV.

 

[Lost Lake]

My sister is liberal and she predicted doomsday when the permits were beginning to come out.

I keep rubbing it in... Kind of satisfying to keep sticking it in liberal's faces isn't it? She even listens to liberal radio shows and gets all bent out of shape about the garbage they feed her.

I'm glad the only reported incident was a life-saving one. Very successful first year!!!

 

[bobkarno]

Sounds great in theory, but in Milwaukee, and I would assume in many big cities around the country, people can't even get a cop to show up when they do call the police as the resources are spread so thin. If you call to tell them you were mugged but that you weren't harmed, they would likely tell you to count your blessings and that you should come in to file a report if you so choose (that will never be followed up on).If they do follow up they then mis-report the crimes into the FBI database.

Commission to hire consultant to audit police reports - JSOnline

The fact that the city has a CCW hating Chief who would probaby treat you, the victim, like a criminal so he could score political points with his city official cronies may need to be taken into account as well. They won't even give back the gun to the guy who legally used his weapon in the only documented Wisconsin CC self defense case. They don't have the time and the resources to prosecute all the crime in the city either. A thwarted robbery would probably never see the light of day in a court room, the perp would never see jail and you would only be exposing yourself further to a criminal who might come looking for you later. This is life in the big city. If I can walk away with my life while the bad guy runs the other way, I will probably be thankful for that.

 

[Zebulon]

Don't worry....the reports are still being watched like hawks in hopes to make the anti's case. I was very thankful that the Aldis incident was the first, and we had an eloquent spokesman rather than an alternative who could have made it clear he was "itching for an opportunity".......Let's hope everyone does the right thing, with the right outlook. There was precious little to pick apart with that young man.....As you presented your weapon and not having to use it, I need to walk that through with many more of you before I make my mind up. I see both sides at this point....keep the responses coming, and let me know what the CC Laws actually require....Thanks...Zebulon

 

[badge]

First off, don't waste your breath talking to hardcore liberals. They are not worth the breath. I have a family member that resides in that bastion of tree hugger's, Madison. What you can do is introduce them to weapons and take them shooting and I cite this from personal experience. She shot, she enjoyed it and NOW wants her own weapon. Just my take.

 

[Lost Lake]

My tree hugging liberal sister hunts and shoots and her husband owns a business!! Yet she STILL is liberal. She lives just north of Madison....

 

[Coastie762]

It seems that concealed carry has fallen off the local medias radar screens in favor of other topics. The last mention I saw concerned the recent submission of the proposed final training rules for concealed weapon licence applicants.

There will be the obligatory first anniversary stories coming up in November, but even then it may be overshadowed by the upcoming election. As of now, the lack of incidents to date have made this a bit of a non-issue. The media hates boring.

Until, of course, a CWL holder shoots some poor disadvantaged soul just trying to better his financial portfolio by attempting to forcibly redistribute some other folks wealth...

 

[Neumann]

It's possible but not likely that someone attempting to rob you will file a "man with a gun" report. Road rage is another thing altogether. A guy that cuts you off and jumps out of his car with mahem in mind won't hesitate to lie to police if seeing your firearm thwarts his intentions. I've sat in court contesting a couple of traffic tickets, and heard dozens of road rage stories first hand, none involving firearms however.

I've had a couple of nutcases come up to me (old timers tend to drive too slow for some cowboys), but they can't report what they never saw. All ended without incident.

 

[blujax01]

My tree hugging liberal sister hunts and shoots and her husband owns a business!! Yet she STILL is liberal. She lives just north of Madison....

There are a couple of liberal gun forums that I find interesting. I guess it shows that liberal doesn't automatically mean anti-2A! Come to think of it I know a few seriously conservative folks who abhor firearms...

 

[venomballistics]

There are a couple of liberal gun forums that I find interesting. I guess it shows that liberal doesn't automatically mean anti-2A! Come to think of it I know a few seriously conservative folks who abhor firearms...

be it political, philosophical or religious alignments. most all abandon these systems just as soon as they foresee failure

 

[Chuck1217]

Sounds great in theory, but in Milwaukee, and I would assume in many big cities around the country, people can't even get a cop to show up when they do call the police as the resources are spread so thin. If you call to tell them you were mugged but that you weren't harmed, they would likely tell you to count your blessings and that you should come in to file a report if you so choose (that will never be followed up on).If they do follow up they then mis-report the crimes into the FBI database.

Commission to hire consultant to audit police reports - JSOnline

The fact that the city has a CCW hating Chief who would probaby treat you, the victim, like a criminal so he could score political points with his city official cronies may need to be taken into account as well. They won't even give back the gun to the guy who legally used his weapon in the only documented Wisconsin CC self defense case. They don't have the time and the resources to prosecute all the crime in the city either. A thwarted robbery would probably never see the light of day in a court room, the perp would never see jail and you would only be exposing yourself further to a criminal who might come looking for you later. This is life in the big city. If I can walk away with my life while the bad guy runs the other way, I will probably be thankful for that.

I, too, can see the danger if there are other witnesses, and if maybe it turned out there was a misunderstanding or something- like, draw the gun, guy explains, you re-holster. But in the case of a robber, you draw and scare him away, I can't see him going to the cops and reporting 'that guy pulled a gun on me."
In general I agree with notifying the cops if something happens- but can see- there may be times....

 

[Chuck1217]

First off, don't waste your breath talking to hardcore liberals. They are not worth the breath. I have a family member that resides in that bastion of tree hugger's, Madison. What you can do is introduce them to weapons and take them shooting and I cite this from personal experience. She shot, she enjoyed it and NOW wants her own weapon. Just my take.

I agree on the wasted breath- there are folks who are simply uninterested, and/or don't know whether folks should go around armed or not. I find the best thing to do with- fencesitters- is rather than argue they should get a gun, or I have every right to have all the guns I want- is to explain the idea of RIGHTS. Ya know, the Const. says we have the right to keep and bear arms, if we allow them to take THAT right away, they will take away more- and one of those may be something THEY are concerned about. It is a right- get them to stand up for THEIR rights, which happen to include RKBA. See what I mean?

 

[Chuck1217]

Oh, blujax, you remember the name of one of those lib. forums? No need to get me a link, if you know the name or close to it, I can just google it. Sometimes I think I'll read some, see what the peaceniks are saying. Peaceniks- haven't heard that in a long time, not sure where my pea-brain came from on that one...

 

[ibewbull]

I recall when the first handgun deer season came and Chicken Little waited for the sky to fall.
" It will be like the wild west!"
Well it did not come then and still has not.
Civilized folks respect life and therefore defend it also.
I have lived in the land of Cheese since 1976 and aplaud them all for finally passing a CCL option.
I was in Madison for the vote which failed and it was depressing. Seeing the polically motivated chiefs on one side the the beat cop on the other.
Well it finally got through because of our court rulings on RKBA. No it ws not Walker alone by a stretch.
Since the law went into effect I have stopped eating at two resturants with signage prohibiuting carry. My wife got her CCL, before me might I add. She finally found a holster which fits her. Simply Rugged, thanks Rob.
Another change I have seen is the informal request to see a CCL on a personel firearm transaction.
Aldi in Stevens Point removed their sign. I thanked the manager in person.
As for any other firearms events. I have herd nothing.
I am still waiting for two of our three children to get their CCL's

 

[sourdough44]

Thanks again, Gov Walker & company. No 'wild west' shootings here to report.

 

[blujax01]

Oh, blujax, you remember the name of one of those lib. forums? No need to get me a link, if you know the name or close to it, I can just google it. Sometimes I think I'll read some, see what the peaceniks are saying. Peaceniks- haven't heard that in a long time, not sure where my pea-brain came from on that one...

Peaceniks...far out, Man!!

If you search for gun toting liberals you'll find the site is down. It was a good one.

Liberals with guns is a good search as is the liberal gun club.

 

[Chuck1217]

OK, thanks...man....peace

 

[cracker57]

Do I have to move? that's right folks I live in MADISON, please forgive me.
Cracker57

 

[imjin138]

Living in Racine and working in Milwaukee I know in Racine I can get a call to 911 and get a response in a medium amount of time. In Milwaukee I have been put on hold after dialing 911. Around the prison I work at on 43 and Keefe Ave we have had several shooting incidents since July and the police responded long after it was over. We do have cameras around the prison and we cooperate with them.

Back to the original post I have not heard of any negative incidents yet with CCW, just open carry in Milwaukee. I have recomended to my staff that they get their CCW.

Our place and it's parking lot are posted, so they cannot bring them on state grounds. But that doesn't stop the visitors since we do not search their vehicles.

 

[andrewb70]

There are a couple of liberal gun forums that I find interesting. I guess it shows that liberal doesn't automatically mean anti-2A! Come to think of it I know a few seriously conservative folks who abhor firearms...

I am not turning this thread political, but I want to point out the origins of the word "liberal" and "conservative," and demonstrate how those two words have completely lost meaning (because they mean so many things to so many people).

The word liberal is derived from the word liberty, which means freedom. Most of the founding generation (specifically the Jeffersonians) were liberals. They believed that aside from certain powers that were specifically delegated to the government, people were free to do as they please, provided they do not inhibit others from doing so.

So to be "liberal" in a classical definition of the word and be pro 2A is not inconsistent at all.

Today's "liberals" should more accurately be called "progressives." This word has roots in Marxist ideology and thus is perfect for describing "those people."

By today's definition "conservative" seems to imply some sort of fiscal restraint on the part of the government. However, in the past the word was used to describe individuals that wanted to maintain thing "as they are." In the late 18th century Britain, the Tories were the Conservatives and the Whigs were the Liberals. When the Whigs gained power in Parliament, they actually set about repealing much of the laws that limited personal and economic freedom. It was their laws, and more precisely, the lack there of, that helped to ignite the industrial revolution. During the deliberations at the constitutional convention, the Hamiltonians were in fact the "conservatives." Some of them actually wanted to establish a Monarchy. That is the reason why our current constitution was written after "the great compromise."

Anyway, I can go on for hours...

As a side note, many people here (I am guessing) believe in personal liberty and believe that government should act fiscally responsible. That used to be called "liberal" but now a more appropriate term for that would be libertarian.

Carry on...

Andrew

 

[venomballistics]

Do I have to move? that's right folks I live in MADISON, please forgive me.
Cracker57

It could be worse .. can't imagine how without this becoming a discussion about Illinois

 

[bluegrassarms]

I never get tired of, nor ever understand, the "wild west" predictions with every ccw law or similar measure. It makes no sense as criminals are the ones who gun people down in the streets, and they don't bother with permits. It has never happened despite CCW being expanded across the nation. There's no basis for it whatsoever and IMO to believe it shows a serious lack of consideration of the facts in the case.

The only place in the US that typifies the image of the wild west is in Chicago, where there is no carry, or about any other firearm ownership, whatsoever.

It's like they think since there's a law you can't carry that no one (esp criminals) carries, and that letting people who pass background checks carry somehow allows criminals to do it. It makes no sense other than if you think anyone who owns or wants to carry a gun is a nut who will pull their gun on people for looking at them wrong.

So only if you believe in absurd stereotypes does the position even begin to make sense, and of course that still makes no sense since they are just absurd stereotypes.

 

[Old cop]

Please know that being liberal and a gun hater do not necessarily go hand-in-hand. Many politically liberal people are staunch gun rights folks who carry daily and do support our Second Ammendment rights.

 

[Chuck1217]

Well then, those people need to vote for Romney. There is absolutely no doubt how obama feels about guns, and anyone who votes for him WILL get what we fear.

 

[ConditionYellow]

Here is a link to another Wisconsin CCW incident. It made me feel especially warm and fuzzing reading about a fellow LeatherNeck doing the right thing..

JarHead with CCW

I just started a FB page to highlight this type of incident, like many others have posted already, CCW's saving lives is purposely under reported.. I have a few more posted on the FB page (Condition Yellow), please check it out, LIKE it SHARE it, if it's something you can support..

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Condition-Yellow/422569441169754

- Semper Fi

 

[BaaBaa]

I am not turning this thread political, but I want to point out the origins of the word "liberal" and "conservative," and demonstrate how those two words have completely lost meaning....
Anyway, I can go on for hours...

Me too. I am liberal in environmental issues, women's reproductive rights issues and health care but more conservative in fiscal issues generally. I look at each individual issue. Sadly neither major US party is even close to representing me fairly and the libertarian party isn't either. Problem is when voting I have to decide which set of issues is most important to me at that moment as all votes are poor compromises on my own views.

That said, here in Colorado I can't find a single news story about CCW holders being involved in a crime in any way other than trying to prevent it.