hotrod150
Member
I think the muzzle blast from a 357 is just as bad or worse than the recoil. I've only shot full-house 357 out of a 4" M19, and it was flinchy-loud- I don't even want to think about the blast from a 2".
You're Gettin' a J Frame....38 or 357...Your Pick??
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Helderberg
US Veteran
One last thought Nalajr. How would you reload a mag for one of the semi-autos you looked at if you other hand was damaged? It would be slow to reload a revolver with one hand, but it could be done. This had a lot to do with my choice to carry a j-frame or a revolver in general. Good luck with your choice, Frank.
Any of these will do nicely. Centennials are for close-in self defense, and for drawing easily. +P .38 special is brutal in these guns, and .357 will be especially painful beyond that, making a quick follow-up shot very improbable in execution. Shot placement, not a few hundred feet per second increase in velocity, is the crucial thing. I'd sooner rely on several quickly and carefully placed .38 wadcutters than one wildly placed full-house .357 with little chance for a second shot.
John
John
peppercorn
Member
I like options, the mod 60 .357 gives options just like the .44mag gives options up and down the power scale.
This is carried with +P but it's fun to fire off a few mags. now and then. And, it really isn't that bad on the hand relative to some poly semi autos I have shot on occasion.
And, if my flashlight ever dies I can always use the 'Magnum flash feature' to help orient myself.
This is carried with +P but it's fun to fire off a few mags. now and then. And, it really isn't that bad on the hand relative to some poly semi autos I have shot on occasion.
And, if my flashlight ever dies I can always use the 'Magnum flash feature' to help orient myself.
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Holy SMOKES! Now that really gives new meaning to the phrase flash-bang!...it's fun to fire off a few mags. now and then ...And, if my flashlight ever dies I can always use the 'Magnum flash feature' to help orient myself.
riverrat38
US Veteran
"And, if my flashlight ever dies I can always use the 'Magnum flash feature' to help orient myself."
Or, to start an emergency survival fire!
Best,
Rick
Or, to start an emergency survival fire!
Best,
Rick
hotrod150
Member
THat'd be pretty handy for signalling spacecraft in orbit.
Not really a concern as one handed reloads on a semi are easy enough and much quicker than a revolver, as with anything though you need to practice.
Lew Archer
Member
The semi auto is generally easier to reload then a revolver...
Doing a tactical reload with a semi auto (replacing a partially or fully depleted magazine with a full magazine, while the slide remains in battery with a round chambered) is, with practice, easy and fast. During the magazine exchange, you still have a round in the chamber, ready to fire.
With a revolver, any reloading takes the weapon out of action while the cylinder is reloaded.
Also, a tactical reload with a revolver conducted by topping off a partially depleted cylinder with fresh rounds could be difficult with one hand. This type of load would preclude use of a speed loader (if extra rounds were carried in a speed loader, one would have to release these into the hand first, and then load single rounds as desired).
The alternative revolver tactical reload would be to eject whatever was in the cylinder (including unfired rounds) and then reloading (preferably with a speed loader). The gun is out of action momentarily. Also, unless retrieved, any ejected live rounds would be lost.
The emergency reload of a semi auto (where the pistol has been shot empty) is likewise easy and fast to accomplish one handed, with practice, PROVIDED THE SLIDE IS LOCKED TO THE REAR AND THE SHOOTER CAN OPERATE THE SLIDE RELEASE CATCH WITH THE SHOOTING HAND.
Where one handed reloading with a semi auto gets tricky is in the case where the empty pistol's slide, for whatever reason, is in battery and NOT locked to the rear.
In that case, after a fresh magazine has been inserted, the shooter must find a means of cycling the slide manually to chamber a round. This requires hooking the rear sight on something and pushing the pistol against that, so that the frame moves forward while the slide remains on place, still hooked by the sights against something, such as the edge of a belt or holster. The design of the sights will effect whether this is doable or not. For example, Novak's low profile carry sights, with their wedge design, would not lend themselves to this technique. In this instance, a revolver would be easier to reload one handed.
Of course, the generally higher ammo capacity of the semi auto might make the necessity of a reload less likely.
The key is to know your equipment, then plan and prepare for contingencies, with knowledge of the capabilities and limitations of your weapon, your accessories and yourself.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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The 642 38 comes in at 15 oz.
the 60 357 weighs in at 22.6 oz. +/-
For 38 +P loads the extra frame and 7.6 oz. are nice to calm the recoil down a little more than the lite model.......
but for all day carry the 15oz. is also a very nice to have. (The newer style has a mag J frame)
Depends on where and how you plan to carry it..........
Some shoot the full load but most of us believe the +P is plenty if you get good with it.
The 38 special is perfect for paper and tin cans or putting other stuff on the ground if needed.
Good luck.
the 60 357 weighs in at 22.6 oz. +/-
For 38 +P loads the extra frame and 7.6 oz. are nice to calm the recoil down a little more than the lite model.......
but for all day carry the 15oz. is also a very nice to have. (The newer style has a mag J frame)
Depends on where and how you plan to carry it..........
Some shoot the full load but most of us believe the +P is plenty if you get good with it.
The 38 special is perfect for paper and tin cans or putting other stuff on the ground if needed.
Good luck.
PRM1
Member
Neither would be a deal breaker for me as far as caliber. I own both. My Model 60-9 is a .357, however, I have never fired a single .357 through it. Not crazy about the hot round in a snub. The sturdier frame and barrel length work great with everything else.
My Model 649 is a first year production .38 Special. Does everything I need and is a real keeper. Very accurate and carries "like a boss."
My Model 649 is a first year production .38 Special. Does everything I need and is a real keeper. Very accurate and carries "like a boss."
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heeter3
Member
442/38 special for me,easy to carry easier to shoot and with the right round very efficient.
Good points on the reloading of the Semis with one hand.
With a 1911 you can insert the mag and if the slide is in battery and the gun is empty, you can simply find a small enough edge or corner and push the guide rod spring cap that's under the barrel against it hard enough until the slide comes back and strips a round and then simply let it go forward and you're ready to go. Of course if you have a 1911 with the FULL LENGTH GUIDE ROD this won't be possible.
I've kinda thought that if I am in a situation where the weapon I am using is shot dry and the threat is still trying to kill me, I'm in BIG TROUBLE. Kinda the same thing I tell people that are discussing HD shotguns and how they carry a shotgun that has 8+1, a sidesaddle of 7 and a bandolier of 15 more. I tell them that if my shotgun goes dry and the threat isn't neutralized after I have shot 8 or 9 rounds of 12 Gauge American Goodness at it, the next thing I'm grabbing for isn't going to be more ammo, it'll be my BIBLE. Cause the threat or I are getting ready to go to our reward.
Nalajr
Nalajr
With a 1911 you can insert the mag and if the slide is in battery and the gun is empty, you can simply find a small enough edge or corner and push the guide rod spring cap that's under the barrel against it hard enough until the slide comes back and strips a round and then simply let it go forward and you're ready to go. Of course if you have a 1911 with the FULL LENGTH GUIDE ROD this won't be possible.
I've kinda thought that if I am in a situation where the weapon I am using is shot dry and the threat is still trying to kill me, I'm in BIG TROUBLE. Kinda the same thing I tell people that are discussing HD shotguns and how they carry a shotgun that has 8+1, a sidesaddle of 7 and a bandolier of 15 more. I tell them that if my shotgun goes dry and the threat isn't neutralized after I have shot 8 or 9 rounds of 12 Gauge American Goodness at it, the next thing I'm grabbing for isn't going to be more ammo, it'll be my BIBLE. Cause the threat or I are getting ready to go to our reward.
Nalajr
Nalajr
Lew Archer
Member
One other thought, comparing the relative virtues of the semi auto and revolver when limited to the use of one hand in a gunfight (sorry for the thread drift):
How to clear malfunctions?
The usual recourse with a semi auto pistol is a "tap, rack, ready", aka "tap, rack, shoot" drill: firmly tap the magazine floor plate, to ensure it is seated properly, then vigorously rack the slide, then present the weapon to the threat and act accordingly. Hard to do one handed---hard to vigorously cycle the slide, even if you can hook the rear sights on something and push against it.
In the event of a double feed jam, the usual remedy is to lock the slide to the rear, rip out the magazine, discard it, vigorously cycle the slide and reload with a fresh magazine (and at that point the slide is likely in battery, unless one takes care to lock it open prior to inserting the new magazine). Very, very hard to accomplish all that in a gunfight. Even with two hands, this is something ideally done from behind cover.
The general simplicity of the revolver is one of its greatest virtues. In the event a round does not discharge when the trigger is pulled, the remedy is...pull the trigger again. If the issue was a defective round (hard primer, whatever), simply pulling the trigger again solves the problem (provided their are live rounds left!). Obviously, the "pull the trigger again" procedure is not affected by a shooter who only has the use of one hand.
Solution:
Carry a semi auto AND a revolver! The J frame, .357 or .38, is natural back up gun. If injured, the .38 is easier to control, get hits with and win the fight.
There, the thread is back on track!
How to clear malfunctions?
The usual recourse with a semi auto pistol is a "tap, rack, ready", aka "tap, rack, shoot" drill: firmly tap the magazine floor plate, to ensure it is seated properly, then vigorously rack the slide, then present the weapon to the threat and act accordingly. Hard to do one handed---hard to vigorously cycle the slide, even if you can hook the rear sights on something and push against it.
In the event of a double feed jam, the usual remedy is to lock the slide to the rear, rip out the magazine, discard it, vigorously cycle the slide and reload with a fresh magazine (and at that point the slide is likely in battery, unless one takes care to lock it open prior to inserting the new magazine). Very, very hard to accomplish all that in a gunfight. Even with two hands, this is something ideally done from behind cover.
The general simplicity of the revolver is one of its greatest virtues. In the event a round does not discharge when the trigger is pulled, the remedy is...pull the trigger again. If the issue was a defective round (hard primer, whatever), simply pulling the trigger again solves the problem (provided their are live rounds left!). Obviously, the "pull the trigger again" procedure is not affected by a shooter who only has the use of one hand.
Solution:
Carry a semi auto AND a revolver! The J frame, .357 or .38, is natural back up gun. If injured, the .38 is easier to control, get hits with and win the fight.
There, the thread is back on track!
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.357
I'd carry my loads. Low end .357 rounds.
I'd carry my loads. Low end .357 rounds.
FWIW I have an M36 (.38 spl only) and am looking at buying an M60 (.357). While I will likely only load the M60 with .38 +P for carrying, I like the idea of having the option of using the .357 rounds (or at least the brass) if .38s aren't available.
madstabber
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I have a 642 with a trigger job and crimson trace grips and it is the perfect CCW. But now I've seen the 640 pro and I have to have it, real sights and there night sights, moon clip ready, full sized ejector rod, nice grips that cover the backstrap to handle the .357, and it's super cool looking to boot. So like jays potato chips you can't have just one. Oh yea and no internal lock on either gun for a cherry on top.
I love the 340M&P (no lock) for it's sights, tough finish, lightweight, and yes....357 magnum capability.
When firing 357, I have a routine where I draw it with purpose from under a concealment garment, move "off line" rapidly while engaging the targets.
When I act "with purpose" in firing 357 magnum rounds through this beauty, I feel NO pain.
When I stand in a perfectly comfortable firing stance, aim slowly at my paper bullseye, and squeeze off a round....OUCH!!
When firing 357, I have a routine where I draw it with purpose from under a concealment garment, move "off line" rapidly while engaging the targets.
When I act "with purpose" in firing 357 magnum rounds through this beauty, I feel NO pain.
When I stand in a perfectly comfortable firing stance, aim slowly at my paper bullseye, and squeeze off a round....OUCH!!
To each his own, but...
.357 magnum short barrel chronograph info - September 2013 Combat Handguns - EAA Windicator article pages 60-65 and page 93
EAA Windicator .357 magnum 2" barrel
.357 magnum loads
Black Hills 125 gr XTP - 1,254 fps average
Corbon 125 gr DPX - 1,147 fps average
Remington 125 gr SJHP - 1,306 fps average
Winchester 125 gr SJHP - 1,256 fps average
Hornady 140 gr XTP - 1,175 fps average
Kestrel
Member
Interesting thread. Running out of time this evening so I'll catch up the next chance I get.
My concealed carry revolver is an AirLite Ti .38 loaded with Federal Hydrashok 110's or 125's. That particular revolver is naturally not all that pleasant to train with, which is why I sent close to a thousand rounds downrange this past year with my 60-10 .357 3" bbl (i.e. my backpacking gun). Coincidentally, all of that ammo was much-more-manageable .38 Spl.
The steel J-frames are definitely the ticket for long sessions with any .38 Spl ammo.
My concealed carry revolver is an AirLite Ti .38 loaded with Federal Hydrashok 110's or 125's. That particular revolver is naturally not all that pleasant to train with, which is why I sent close to a thousand rounds downrange this past year with my 60-10 .357 3" bbl (i.e. my backpacking gun). Coincidentally, all of that ammo was much-more-manageable .38 Spl.
The steel J-frames are definitely the ticket for long sessions with any .38 Spl ammo.
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bmcgilvray
Member
I like steel J-Frames in .38 Special best.
For .357 Magnum I'd skip the J-Frame entirely in favor of the much better Models 13/65 3-inch or Models 19/66 2 1/20-inch. The .357 Magnum in the J-Frame mostly amounts to a stunt. Only one opinion.
For .357 Magnum I'd skip the J-Frame entirely in favor of the much better Models 13/65 3-inch or Models 19/66 2 1/20-inch. The .357 Magnum in the J-Frame mostly amounts to a stunt. Only one opinion.
echo1xg36c
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Me personally for my j frames I feel .38 +p is sufficient.
.357 out of one isn't fun at all. Not saying its horrible but you can acomplish the nesscary results with .38 +p with better shots.
Now .357 out of my k/l frames, different story...
.357 out of one isn't fun at all. Not saying its horrible but you can acomplish the nesscary results with .38 +p with better shots.
Now .357 out of my k/l frames, different story...
I chose a model 640 .357 for my first handgun. I wanted something capable of making a bear (oh no not another bear thread!) turn around that was easier to carry than a shotgun. I also wanted the heaviest gun I could fit in my hand and I'm short female and can't easily conceal anything else.
I shoot primarily 38 special out of it but have shot half a match (local club, uses IDPA rules but allows all sorts of firearms) using .357 (all I had enough ammo for) I finished the match using 38 specials. Biggest difference I see with the .357 is it's louder even with ear protection and has a larger flash.
I don't find that there is much recoil on it at all, certainly nothing I'd worry about. I don't think I'd try that with a lightweight J frame though.
I had to make my choice without ever firing one as there was no place to rent anything locally.
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This. Not to mention you can always shoot .38 Special out of a .357.
I have a S&W M&P360 Chief Special that I freaking love. Not cheap, but besides my Colt Python it's one of the nicest triggers, imo. Also, if it matters to you the front sight on the M&P360 is an XS night sight.
Only issue I have with it is that it won't accept speed loaders, so speed strips are your only option for a quick reload. But you can get fast with practice.
I carry a Glock 19 or 26 usually, but if I'm going to a place where I need deep concealment its my J-Frame in a pocket holster with 2 extra speed strips.
Bmlove
US Veteran
I guess I am strange. I love my .38 special +P new model bodyguard. For SD i use wadcutters, cheap an effective at 21 ft or less. I know, another whole topic. Every once and awhile i will go to my .380 bodyguard just for a change of pace. Then i also have a ruger LC9, but have not carried it yet. Getting use to the trigger. ��. I am comfortable with these guns and that is the key for me. AND I am accurate. I'm sure not everyone will agree. But thats my two cents worth. Lovethis forum. Good people here. Good luck on choosing.
lawman still
I have two j frames. A model 37 and a 642. The first C in CCW stands for concealed, as you know. It's difficult to conceal a large framed handgun. Especially here in Florida wearing a minimal amount of outer wear. Both guns fire .38 special but only the 642 can fire +P. I mostly carry my guns only with the .38 special ammo. The reason is because I don't want to use the gun on a bad guy and also shoot the person behind him. In the house as well, I don't want to shoot my neighbor. Of course the choice is yours but in a crowed place you may not be able to defend yourself with a high velocity round. My thoughts!
I have two j frames. A model 37 and a 642. The first C in CCW stands for concealed, as you know. It's difficult to conceal a large framed handgun. Especially here in Florida wearing a minimal amount of outer wear. Both guns fire .38 special but only the 642 can fire +P. I mostly carry my guns only with the .38 special ammo. The reason is because I don't want to use the gun on a bad guy and also shoot the person behind him. In the house as well, I don't want to shoot my neighbor. Of course the choice is yours but in a crowed place you may not be able to defend yourself with a high velocity round. My thoughts!
