Relevance of Short Barreled Big Bore Revolvers for Modern Self-Defense

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waffles said:
Well "us" is inclusive of the writer, in this case me, so I'd call it friendly if a bit self deprecating.
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If I took your post wrong then I apologize. I have been bashed on this forum so often I am a little sensitive. :)

I am a "nonconformist" that thinks way outside the box and have always been that way. That is one of the reasons I was picked when I was in a 1200 man ROTC cadet corp. to be part of the first "Counter Insurgency Unit" set up and run by a Special Forces cadre on our campus which led to me getting one of the only two full Army scholarships awarded each year. I am not a strictly by the book person as I think the bad guys may have "studied the book" tactics and I don't want to be patternable. I was sneaky as a young man but as I have grown older I became devious due to more detailed planning and thought. That part of my nature bothers some people because I do not trust people until they prove themselves worthy of trust because so many have failed to do so.
 
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YkcorCal said:
Waffles some of us unfortunate Americans live in the Peoples Socialist Republic of California where we do not even have the RIGHT to self defense under the California State Constitution. For the last six years after I made the stupid mistake of agreeing to relocate here, I have been trying to convince my wife to move just across the border into Arizona. She is almost there because her liberal daughter-in-law so limits her access to her grandchildren she is about fed up. Maybe then we can get the girls to come visit for a week or two at a time she is thinking. It would be nice to live in a Free State again away from the stares and dirty looks we get here when we go into a gun store.
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Ban states were addressed in a couple of my posts. I came from CT, a ban state, to Colorado, a lesser ban state. As per an earlier post in this thread, I'd still say 4-5 extra rounds matters, but you are right that it's less of a difference.

CA sucks for guns, but there is a lot of great stuff to do there otherwise. Just wish it was a little chiller on the guns as CO is heading your way sadly.
 
waffles said:
Ban states were addressed in a couple of my posts. I came from CT, a ban state, to Colorado, a lesser ban state. As per an earlier post in this thread, I'd still say 4-5 extra rounds matters, but you are right that it's less of a difference.

CA sucks for guns, but there is a lot of great stuff to do there otherwise. Just wish it was a little chiller on the guns as CO is heading your way sadly.
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I lived in Casper, Wyoming for ten years. You could carry a gun anywhere back then except in the city limits as long as it was not concealed. It was considered "disturbing the peace if you did." I wore a Ruger Redhawk 5.5" .44 Magnum on my right hip and never had any problem from anyone including law enforcement. It was on the passenger's seat going out of town so it was not concealed. I loved living in Wyoming! Great hunting and fishing. :D

I lived in Texas for about the same time but that was before they finally got CCW for handguns. Back then a handgun was considered a prohibited weapon for carry purposes. My first wife back then was a Sheriff's Deputy and I carried a "legal short 12ga. shotgun" that all the local deputies knew I carried as well as the local police. Man the stories that got started because people would call 911 to report me but the dispatchers all knew me so the callers were all assured it was alright, they knew who I was and it was legal for me to carry the gun. :rolleyes:

It saved my life one night from two robbers. Thank God for Texas! :)
 
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The reason I am interested in and plan to purchase a S&W Performance Center 629 2.6" .44 Mag. revolver is due to my specific living situation. I can carry it in my apartment easily here in CA in case of home invasion. I can load it with ammo that will keep those in the apartments around me safe while at the same time delivering devastating damage to an attacker. If and when I move/travel with it out of state and the need should arise for defense for anything up to a bear. There are loads for that. I am not going to go into specific details so as not to offend the weak of heart and/or constitution. If you would like specific info. contact me personally.
 
Univibe said:
No.

1. Contrary to what people believe, reloading a revolver in a short range shootout is virtually impossible. Six is all you get.

2. Gangstas travel in packs, and most of them have semis.

3. Forget statistics. Plan for worst cases when it's your life.

4. How many pros stake their life on a big bore revolver?

5. Load your big bore revolver with dummies
Challenge someone with an airsoft pistol to a fight. You will be humbled, and you will go out and buy a double stack plastic gun.

6. See videos of real encounters
You can empty that revolver in 2 or 3 seconds. Then what?

7. Nobody in the civilian nor LEO world understands the concept of suppression fire
The above mentioned airsoft kid does. He's been in hundreds of realistic shootouts. Suppression uses ammo.

This is your new average. You're in a cell phone store. Three armed thugs come in. One fires a shot at the ceiling. They announce a robbery. You with your revolver are almost hopelessly outgunned. If you contrive to live, you can discuss how things don't change with Mr Campbell.

If you choose revolver, perhaps Mr. Tom Givens will condescend to speak your eulogy when you run out of ammo and die.
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The number of kids actually killed in airsoft shot outs. ZERO
Their understanding of a TRUE LIFE AND DEATH gunfight ZERO

When you try to use suppressive fire and run out of ammo with your 17 shot wonder 9 I will not speak at your funeral.
 
steelslaver said:
The number of kids actually killed in airsoft shot outs. ZERO
Their understanding of a TRUE LIFE AND DEATH gunfight ZERO

When you try to use suppressive fire and run out of ammo with your 17 shot wonder 9 I will not speak at your funeral.
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Ever play? It's not a complete training regimen, but it's the only way to gain experience on a two way shooting range without risking your life. It hurts just bad enough to make you instinctively cautious. You learn more in one day than you will ever learn from other sources, because none of those can simulate an environment where people are trying to "kill" you. It's the best training money can't buy.


What will I do when my wonder 9 runs out? Slam in another mag and keep going! With any luck I won't need a eulogy.
 
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IrishFritz said:
(I have been told by those who know that training goes out the window when the **** hits the fan and all that is left is instinct).
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We bothered to examine our firearms training in light of actual shootings on a continual basis through the 80s and 90s, then even more formally since in the NMSP. What we found is that officers under stress will revert to how they were trained the most extensively and/or the most recently.

We applied what we learned by adding critical new things all the time - in example, with revolvers we stopped allowing officers to empty spent brass into their hands during qualifications, we purchased better holsters, abandoned the PPC for more realistic in-service qualifications and trainings, and started teaching revolver, shotgun, rifle, and semi-auto pistol shooters to 'top off' fired weapons as quickly as reasonable, to load shotguns from the bottom with the muzzle downrange and a round in the chamber, and on and on.

Again, we did this because we found from actual shootings that officers under stress usually performed weapons tasks exactly as trained the most and the most recently.
 
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Univibe said:
Ever play? It's not a complete training regimen, but it's the only way to gain experience on a two way shooting range without risking your life. It hurts just bad enough to make you instinctively cautious. You learn more in one day than you will ever learn from other sources, because none of those can simulate an environment where people are trying to "kill" you. It's the best training money can't buy.


What will I do when my wonder 9 runs out? Slam in another mag and keep going! With any luck I won't need a eulogy.
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Why yes in fact I have done the paint ball thing and guess what hits count not number of rounds fired. Fire power is fine. Accuracy is FINAL. You see accounts with high number of rounds fired to no effect' YOUR type of responce. You also see dead guys after low round counts. My planned response.

Here is a FIRE POWER story for you as told to me by a Marine Sgt. who had been in several REAL fire fights and had the chest salad to prove it. When he was a L/cpl he said he was on a platoon sized patrol when a VC broke from cover on the edge of a rice patty and ran for the other bank. The whole platoon of over 30 some odd guys opened up on him, with some full auto M16s and a couple M60 belt feds, the guy made it up and over because as the Sgt said "NOBODY actual stopped to just aim and shoot the guy". I always remember that. You should too.
 
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YkcorCal said:
...Can a big bore revolver still be relevant in an average modern day gunfight today?
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Your phone store shootout scenario has me thinking maybe I should carry a hand grenade in addition to my trusty .38 spl sixshooter.:)

Frankly, the scenario I more often imagine is being accosted by a bad guy(s) looking to rob or beat me, etc. I don't envision them coming at me guns blazing. As a civilian, mind-my-own-beeswax kinda guy, I think my being involved in a shootout is about as likely as being hit by space junk.

In your phone store scenario, I'd be doing my best to look as as unthreatening as possible, following directions, etc., while hoping/waiting to get the drop on the bad guys. Probably wouldn't make a move unless killing began. At that point, I hope my nerve would hold so that I'd be able to aim and fire deliberately. Fortunately, I am pretty sure I'll never need to find out.
 
Onomea said:
Your phone store shootout scenario has me thinking maybe I should carry a hand grenade in addition to my trusty .38 spl sixshooter.:)

Frankly, the scenario I more often imagine is being accosted by a bad guy(s) looking to rob or beat me, etc. I don't envision them coming at me guns blazing. As a civilian, mind-my-own-beeswax kinda guy, I think my being involved in a shootout is about as likely as being hit by space junk.

In your phone store scenario, I'd be doing my best to look as as unthreatening as possible, following directions, etc., while hoping/waiting to get the drop on the bad guys. Probably wouldn't make a move unless killing began. At that point, I hope my nerve would hold so that I'd be able to aim and fire deliberately. Fortunately, I am pretty sure I'll never need to find out.
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That's what I think I'd do, too. Don't draw attention, and if you do have to shoot, be a surprise. You'll never see me open carrying, or wearing any clothing that says "second amendment" or anything having to do with guns.



But this happens all the time in the big city. Life is cheap.
 
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,

Well I'm an old fart that leans toward the Jim Cirillo way of thinking as he states in his book "Tales of the Stakeout Squad." "Oh," "I don't put too much emphasis on the reload, because when my first gun goes out, I go to the second one, and when that goes out i go to the third gun, and when that goes out ..."

So Massad coined the term "the New York reload."

As we get older and wiser we often get more devious as I believe Jim Cirillo did. I for one believe in carrying more than one gun (and type of gun) because things happen and it is always better to be prepared for eventualities when they do. I as some others do believe in carrying knives and being prepared for close in combatives. Be safe and be prepared. :)

The point is being prepared; for those that may miss it as Jim Cirillo was one of the most prepared both physically and mentally for a gunfight of any person on earth.
 
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Univibe said:
But this happens all the time in the big city. Life is cheap.
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and I live in a town of 6000 that has had 2 murders in the last 20 years. My state has less murders in a year than Chicago has on a weekend. Maybe you don't need a wonder 9 with 20 rounds, but a U haul truck.
 
Univibe said:
No.

1. Contrary to what people believe, reloading a revolver in a short range shootout is virtually impossible. Six is all you get.

2. Gangstas travel in packs, and most of them have semis.

3. Forget statistics. Plan for worst cases when it's your life.

4. How many pros stake their life on a big bore revolver?

5. Load your big bore revolver with dummies
Challenge someone with an airsoft pistol to a fight. You will be humbled, and you will go out and buy a double stack plastic gun.

6. See videos of real encounters
You can empty that revolver in 2 or 3 seconds. Then what?

7. Nobody in the civilian nor LEO world understands the concept of suppression fire
The above mentioned airsoft kid does. He's been in hundreds of realistic shootouts. Suppression uses ammo.

This is your new average. You're in a cell phone store. Three armed thugs come in. One fires a shot at the ceiling. They announce a robbery. You with your revolver are almost hopelessly outgunned. If you contrive to live, you can discuss how things don't change with Mr Campbell.

If you choose revolver, perhaps Mr. Tom Givens will condescend to speak your eulogy when you run out of ammo and die.
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While you have some valid points I'll take exception with two:

5. Load your big bore revolver with dummies
Challenge someone with an airsoft pistol to a fight. You will be humbled, and you will go out and buy a double stack plastic gun.

Your airsoft hero isn't going to kill or injure an innocent with his high volume of missed shots. Real bullets will and are not limited to the confines of a store or immediate area.

7. Nobody in the civilian nor LEO world understands the concept of suppression fire:

Yes, actually they do and there's a reason it's not advocated. In your cell phone store scenario suppression fire is nothing more than high volume misplaced shots that are a danger to customers, staff and bystanders.



Tom Givens' students have overwhelmingly prevailed in their encounters and provide perhaps the best data sample of well documented citizen use of force incidents.
 
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uncleted327 said:
This is some of the most ridiculous drivel I've read in a long time.
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IDK. Around here, that's how they do it. Lately, gangs have been targeting Walgreen stores and stealing all the cigarettes. They come up out of St. Louis and hit the smaller towns.
 
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